What Do You Think About Bill Weiss Certificates?

APS offers a guarantee up to $5000 on its certificates in cases of counterfeit, misidentified, or altered material. The other services do not, to my knowledge, offer guarantees, though most if not all of them are willing to revist prior opinions if a mistake or additional information is provided.

I just had a Weiss cert for a Scott#24 that said "NH" overruled by PF who said previously hinged.

Hi all, most interesting thoughts from most who responded.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if APEX still offered that guarantee.

I think that some people confuse "expertization" with "guarantee". A PF or PSE certificate gets you that organization's OPINION about an item, which can change over time. An expertization is merely one person's (or a group of people's) opinion(s) about an item at the time it was examined. It does NOT provide any kind of money-back guarantee.

You have no recourse against the PF, PSE, PSAG if something turns out to be not as advertised; that is between you and the seller, under whatever terms you agreed to at purchase. If it turns out that a PF/PSE cert provided an inaccurate opinion, your only recourse against that expertizing body is to get a revised certificate and possibly a refund of your expertizing fees; it doesn't make you whole on the original purchase.

That is different from guarantee certificates provided by some sellers that are also experts in their field. For example, I believe (please correct me if I am wrong) that if you purchase an item from Jay Smith with his expertization certificate with lifetime guarantee, in the event the item is determined to not be what he sold it as, he will refund your original purchase cost (as long as his company is still in business).

Of course these "guarantee" certificates are only as good as the entities offering them. If they go out of business, pass away, or simply refuse to honor the guarantee, you are left without recourse.

Expertization does not equal guarantee/warranty.

There has never been nor will there ever be a man (or woman) that can successfully expertize a field of stamps as wide as Bill did without help from other experts and specialists. When he didn't get the help he should have, he got it wrong sometimes. Anybody that suggests that he was the only one afflicted by this reality and does so in a disparaging way is a phony in their own right. Mr. Crowe said it best when he said that all certs should be looked at carefully and that we all have our strong and weak points.

The problem isn't that he looked for help. The problem is that he took all the credit (and all the money as well) and some people might not have liked that. The money probably matters a great deal less then the credit, which made him seem a far greater expert then he might have been in reality in several areas.

Bart,
I cannot speak to how Bill worked with others but I know how he interacted with me. He always deferred to other experts when I inquired about a stamp that was outside his level of comfort. When I tried to get him to look at a 423B (compound perf) I had stumbled across he instantly told me that he was not the right person to cert this and then went out of his way to help me get it into the hands of someone who could. Anytime I asked him about a revenue he always told me that he was not the right guy for the cert and that if I submitted it to him he would hand it off to you or someone else more knowledgably.

But it could be that Bill might have dealt with me differently than other folks; just my two cents.
Don

Two points about experts and expertizing:

1. I am an advocate for the "small committee" approach with maybe the top three people in a very narrow area giving an opinion and those names should be named on the certificate. Collector input, if needed, should be matched by input from a pro, with adequate tools, who is up to date on current methods of making fakes and fake detection. As a consumer I want to know who examined my "patient" and I can then judge how I will value that opinion, or if I will disregard it. Pooling ignorance is not a solution nor is one person knows all.

2. For me the test of any "expert" is that he knows what he does not know and refuses to opine on those items.

Add-on: I am not aware of any group currently listing the experts who opined on a specific patient. I am also aware of the downside for the experts in having their names listed.

Hi all

There is a person who has a web site for stamps, I've corrected error made in identification, pointed out plate varieties, and other types of corrections. My aim was to help this website and make information more accurate. Never received a mention on this website. I would receive an email, but credit on the website would be would not cost anything. Guess the website does not like to look like?

"There has never been nor will there ever be a man (or woman) that can successfully expertise a field of stamps as Bill did without help from other experts and specialists........" How so?

I assume this thread is just about US stamps. But what about Sergio Sismondo? He seems to expertise just about anything as I see his certs all over various auction house lots. How does he work? Note that I offer no pro or con thought at all regarding Mr. Sismondo. I have never used him myself, although I have one of his certs that came from an auction house.

I also have certs from ISPP (Portuguese colonies) and a couple from MEPSI (Mexico). From my own research, I'm quite happy with the ISPP certs. I'm just developing an in-depth knowledge with Mexico, but those certs also seem OK.

You left out where I said "as wide". And when I say successful I mean with enough knowledge to get it right, save for a few mistakes. Getting it wrong and making mistakes are not the same thing either.

Nobody can know everything, it's that simple.

Hi all

I've been collecting over 60 years now. I know a lot, but there is a lot I do not know.

Too bad that some collectors today think they know it all.

I think the best collector admits their limitations, and then give credit when something is pointed out to them, or a plate variety is discovered that was unknown to them, in the album, stock books, web sites!

Take care all out there, enjoy your stamps, stamps are an adventure.

"As a consumer I want to know who examined my "patient" and I can then judge how I will value that opinion, or if I will disregard it. Pooling ignorance is not a solution nor is one person knows all".

The big problem with this is that most collectors do not have your level of experience and have no idea who is sufficiently knowledgeable in an area and who is not. Which leads to people to decide that any decision that they don't like should be ignored; they will just assume the experts involved simply do not know enough to judge. That's just basic human nature.

revcollector - You are quite correct that it requires knowledge of the various skill sets and areas of expertise of the signing experts. That is usually only gained by experience of the material yourself and direct comparison with your opinion and an expert opinion. That is, there is simply no substitute to being able to make up your own mind about authenticity / quality yourself. When you do not know enough, you have to find somebody who can steer you to the best expert. Generally, anyone in the auction house trade can advise a collectors about available expert dealers, or an expert group, who THEY trust in a given narrow area.

These methods of finding a trusted expertiser seem archaic or at least inefficient for the consumer/collector. This is an area in which associations such as APS, RPSL or others could add real value by offering certification under a registered certification mark, coupled with a searchable index online. At least for individuals; organizations like PF rely on the strength of their brand and independent marketing and advertising and wouldn't need it.