J3 Vs J10 ? ~ Could Either Be J10 ?

This was taken from the Philatelic Foundation site:

Special Printings have very sharp distinct printing lines with no weak spots. Compare the outer frames at left and right with yours. So unfortunately neither is #J10. There may be early printings that look like Special Printings, but the paper used for 1879 Special Printings is different. Further, the Scott catalog does not record any used examples of #J10.

Which one is J10? J8-J14 are special printings, deep brown in color and on soft porous paper. They are very rare. I have to admit I have never seen a real one.

Hy-Brasil... your upload shows how poorly calibrated my scanner is...

My unused stamp to the right looks identical in color to your post...

I may have a winner... I'll be sending to PF... thanks !

It's not your scanner.

The color has nothing to do with anything. Please do go ahead and send it in and report back. Don't forget to send it registered mail, insured. We look forward to the results.

The reason I mentioned the color was because J10 is specifically listed as 'deep brown' whereas J3 is listed as pale brown, yellowish
brown as well as deep brown... and the difference I see (on my screen) of my own stamp appears yellowish brown, whereas the actual stamp
appears the same as your image.

I'm not very good with identifying paper types... I know the J10 is
listed as soft porous, and was hoping someone better at it might be
able to tell by looking at the backscans. Both are very soft and
pliable to the touch, almost to the point of Indian paper, and bright
light passes through both.

What's most confusing is the brownish appearance of the paper itself
on the unused copy... as though it had experienced significant ink
bleeding either during the inking process or sometime afterwards...

For now, I'll send only the unused copy to the PF for their opinion...

The one on the right is J3 and the other is J17.

I'd be interested in hearing your view if you would kindly click on
the image of the backscans to the 600dpi enlargement and commenting
on the paper...

The discussion on these stamps has moved to the main section,
"Seeking opinion on paper type"

J3 is pretty much ruled out... it's hard paper, and both these stamps
are soft porous... the lingering question is why the unused copy has
the brownish tint...

It's likely they're either both J17 or the unused copy is a washed
out J10...

Hi all

Could the experienced collectors for the stamps inquestion, provide examples (if some exist) of different colors of the stamps in question. Maybe this would help?

Is this possible?

Neither stamp is a Special Printing. Because of the extra care taken with Special Printings they typically show what is called a "cameo" effect on the reverse. The central portion of the design which includes the numeral shows on the reverse side. Additionally, the used example can not be a Special Printing as they were not available for sale at post offices and they were the only ones allowed to use postage dues. They (postage dues) are really an accounting method for the post office and not postage useable by anyone.

Bill... (if I may call you Bill) my first question to you would be if
there is any data available for paper type for a J3... Clark clearly
stated the papers were soft (as delineated for the special printings)
and no delineation of paper type in Scott for J3. Given the cameo
effect which you've mentioned, I assume there's a reference book on
dues which mentions this. I assume by the cameo (fact) would be why
you are discounting the possibility of J17 for the unused copy, given
J17 (based upon paper type) would be more of a conclusion for it versus
J3. Second would be explanation (or theory) as to the color of the
paper, and how it might have gotten that way.

Next... the used copy displays (what could be construed to be) the
cameo effect, (as well as being soft porous)... so why would your
conclusion be (it, as well) could not be J10 or J17?

Randall

It's difficult to feel the difference in paper by looking at the scans unless you are very experienced. How about you sending these scans to a big auction firm for an appraisal? Siegel auction had sold quite a few J10 and maybe they will give you a definite answer?

I had never deal with Siegel auction before. But I did ask other auction houses some questions (well, I got to known them in Stamp shows or have bought stamps from them). They are in general very friendly and would like to share their opinions even sometimes they could not reach a definitive conclusion without seeing a real stamp.

Hello, Tang... first, (when) I send the stamp for a positive ID, it
will be to the PF, not Siegel. I have no wish nor desire to sell the
stamp(s)... that will be up to my son when I'm no longer here...

Thanks...

Randall

@disi123

My experience tells me that I don't have to have an intention to sell right now to get an appraisal -- and auction firms and dealers knew that. But you or your heir, will sell it sometimes in the future. You just want to know about the identity and value of the stamp. There is nothing wrong with it. Auction firms and dealers provide free appraisals at the stamps shows all the time, it is a way to win your trust and also show their knowledge, professionalism, and great service. You are their potential customer.

"J3 is pretty much ruled out... it's hard paper"

All of the large format dues (including J1-J7) are on soft paper. Both of those stamps look like J3's to me, one a darker shade, one a more pale shade. Comparison with known references is necessary, as the "red" end of the "brown" range of shades gets pretty close to the "brown" end of the "red brown" range of shades (i.e. there's an outside chance one is a J17). Neither is a special printing - those have a very distinctive "look" (and very deep shade), and neither of these is close.