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Replies: 90 / Views: 13,750 |
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Valued Member
63 Posts |
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I'm guessing that there should be no trouble having the cover & stamp Certified as Genuine, period use? |
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Pillar Of The Community
6329 Posts |
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Hamilton, Butte County, 1851-1865, per Walter Frickstad's "A Century of California Post Offices, 1848 to 1954" and Jim Forte's website. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts |
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Maybe we're reading this wrong. No account for scribbling, but the style of the capital "M" of "Mch" does not match the lower case "m"s.
Pre-1861/Civil War, whatever was in Colorado was in Kansas Territory, even Colorado City was written with "K.T." or somesuch. Post-1861/Civil War, this stamp was invalid and there would be due markings on the cover. So Colorado may be possible but unlikely.
Why the 10c payment for mail to Nebraska? That's a 3000 mile rate, Pacific coast to/from the Atlantic coast, essentially. A big overpayment potentially, since the 3c rate would apply here, I would think.
To be even more curious (or troublesome), what are the greenish dots next to the stamp at the upper left corner?
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Pillar Of The Community
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hy-brasil: the cover goes from California to Iowa. Nebraska?
The pen strokes do not run equally cleanly from the stamp to the envelope - like the stamp has fallen off and been replaced slightly out of its original position. The ink color is quite unusual too. I would be seeking other uses from the same town to verify. Rumsey has run a lot of California postal history in recent years - has he had one of these? |
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| Edited by John Becker - 09/07/2017 11:02 pm |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
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Quote: Why the 10c payment for mail to Nebraska? That's a 3000 mile rate, Pacific coast to/from the Atlantic coast, essentially. A big overpayment potentially, since the 3c rate would apply here, I would think. This is probably an 1856-57 or maybe 1858 use. The cover would have been routed to San Francisco via Panama and then to New Orleans or New York. Under 3,000 miles as the crow flies, but over 3,000 miles on postal routes. There were some overland routes but mail had to be specifically endorsed to use that route. Otherwise the mail was sent via Panama until the Butterfield route became the default route at the end of 1859 |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts |
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Okay, sorry, yes, Iowa.
It's happened before, but then there's no transit mark where it landed back in the US. |
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Valued Member
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fwiw: I received it from a Euro dealer who feeds me US covers as he buys them. He didn't know what the MS was and didn't care. There is some light foxing which ties the stamp. Nothing glows under a black light |
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| Edited by kidrootbeer - 09/08/2017 11:14 am |
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts |
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Looks like the stamp was moved on the cover.It's impossible writing with a quill pen to have a stroke effect like the one in the circle.In fact we can see it was placed slightly to the left.The small dot after ''M'' belongs to the upward corner stroke of ''M''.  |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
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Quote: Noting that the Postmaster abbreviated March as Mch, I would lean toward an abbreviated town name also of Hamilton, Butte County. Quote: Rumsey has run a lot of California postal history in recent years - has he had one of these? Yes, he has, A couple of them. Both in lots with no photo, http://www.rumseyauctions.com/searc.../9/1/desc/10Lot Description; "Sale 37 Lot 110 (County Balance) Butte County. 94 covers, mostly 19th & a few early 20th Century, including many better like manuscript Hamilton, Butte Mills, Bidwell's Bar, Oroville to Canada West, Rock Creek, Clear Creek, etc; several Forbestown "Kicking Mule"; some transcontinental and cross border covers; some advertising, and much more of interest, generally F-VF (no photo). Estimate $750 - 1,000. Realized: $1,600 |
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Pillar Of The Community
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Valued Member
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"Looks like the stamp was moved on the cover.It's impossible writing with a quill pen to have a stroke effect like the one in the circle. In fact we can see it was placed slightly to the left..." that's not true, for the simple fact that the ink still has its "original skin", and hasn't been wet since the initial printing; and if the stamp were 'repositioned', it would be impossible with the layout to be where it is from where it was supposedly to have been
I doubt that the pm is 'Hamilton'... |
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| Edited by kidrootbeer - 09/08/2017 11:17 am |
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Pillar Of The Community
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The manuscript cancel on the OP cover looks different than the Hamilton manuscript shown on R Frajola's site. New postmaster? It doesn't take much imagination to read the postmark as Han(g)town.  |
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| Edited by littleriverphil - 09/08/2017 11:08 am |
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
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Pillar Of The Community
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Yes, different postmasters in 1856-57 and 1860. Frickstad's California book referenced previously, reprints many postmaster lists from various sources. Thus a writing comparison between the two covers is not valid.
For those who read Hamton, Hamtons, etc., How do you square this against the post office lists? If it's genuine, it should match some post office listing for the correct time period. For those who dislike the theory of an abbreviated "Hamilton", please propose something that truly fits the PO listings better. I don't have a dog in this fight, but at some point the cover has to match-up with post office records. Good luck, and I'll stop beating my head against the wall on this one. |
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| Edited by John Becker - 09/08/2017 11:32 am |
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Replies: 90 / Views: 13,750 |
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