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Hamton CA Gold Rush Town?

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Valued Member
63 Posts
Posted 09/07/2017   10:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kidrootbeer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm guessing that there should be no trouble having the cover & stamp Certified as Genuine, period use?
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6329 Posts
Posted 09/07/2017   10:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hamilton, Butte County, 1851-1865, per Walter Frickstad's "A Century of California Post Offices, 1848 to 1954" and Jim Forte's website.
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United States
3224 Posts
Posted 09/07/2017   10:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe we're reading this wrong. No account for scribbling, but the style of the capital "M" of "Mch" does not match the lower case "m"s.

Pre-1861/Civil War, whatever was in Colorado was in Kansas Territory, even Colorado City was written with "K.T." or somesuch. Post-1861/Civil War, this stamp was invalid and there would be due markings on the cover. So Colorado may be possible but unlikely.

Why the 10c payment for mail to Nebraska? That's a 3000 mile rate, Pacific coast to/from the Atlantic coast, essentially. A big overpayment potentially, since the 3c rate would apply here, I would think.

To be even more curious (or troublesome), what are the greenish dots next to the stamp at the upper left corner?



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Posted 09/07/2017   10:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hy-brasil: the cover goes from California to Iowa. Nebraska?

The pen strokes do not run equally cleanly from the stamp to the envelope - like the stamp has fallen off and been replaced slightly out of its original position. The ink color is quite unusual too. I would be seeking other uses from the same town to verify. Rumsey has run a lot of California postal history in recent years - has he had one of these?
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Edited by John Becker - 09/07/2017 11:02 pm
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United States
911 Posts
Posted 09/07/2017   10:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why the 10c payment for mail to Nebraska? That's a 3000 mile rate, Pacific coast to/from the Atlantic coast, essentially. A big overpayment potentially, since the 3c rate would apply here, I would think.


This is probably an 1856-57 or maybe 1858 use. The cover would have been routed to San Francisco via Panama and then to New Orleans or New York. Under 3,000 miles as the crow flies, but over 3,000 miles on postal routes. There were some overland routes but mail had to be specifically endorsed to use that route. Otherwise the mail was sent via Panama until the Butterfield route became the default route at the end of 1859
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Posted 09/08/2017   03:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, sorry, yes, Iowa.

It's happened before, but then there's no transit mark where it landed back in the US.
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Posted 09/08/2017   09:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kidrootbeer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
fwiw: I received it from a Euro dealer who feeds me US covers as he buys them. He didn't know what the MS was and didn't care. There is some light foxing which ties the stamp. Nothing glows under a black light
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Edited by kidrootbeer - 09/08/2017 11:14 am
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France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 09/08/2017   09:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like the stamp was moved on the cover.It's impossible writing with a quill pen to have a stroke effect like the one in the circle.In fact
we can see it was placed slightly to the left.The small dot after ''M'' belongs to the upward corner stroke of ''M''.

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United States
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Posted 09/08/2017   10:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Noting that the Postmaster abbreviated March as Mch, I would lean toward an abbreviated town name also of Hamilton, Butte County.



Quote:
Rumsey has run a lot of California postal history in recent years - has he had one of these?


Yes, he has, A couple of them. Both in lots with no photo,

http://www.rumseyauctions.com/searc.../9/1/desc/10

Lot Description;
"Sale 37 Lot 110    
(County Balance) Butte County. 94 covers, mostly 19th & a few early 20th Century, including many better like manuscript Hamilton, Butte Mills, Bidwell's Bar, Oroville to Canada West, Rock Creek, Clear Creek, etc; several Forbestown "Kicking Mule"; some transcontinental and cross border covers; some advertising, and much more of interest, generally F-VF (no photo).
Estimate    $750 - 1,000.

Realized: $1,600
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United States
911 Posts
Posted 09/08/2017   10:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
there is a cover with a Hamilton Cal. manuscript postmark on Richard Frajola's Philamercury census site

http://philamercury.com/covers.php?id=18976
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63 Posts
Posted 09/08/2017   10:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kidrootbeer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Looks like the stamp was moved on the cover.It's impossible writing with a quill pen to have a stroke effect like the one in the circle. In fact
we can see it was placed slightly to the left..."
that's not true, for the simple fact that the ink still has its "original skin", and hasn't been wet since the initial printing; and if the stamp were 'repositioned', it would be impossible with the layout to be where it is from where it was supposedly to have been

I doubt that the pm is 'Hamilton'...
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Edited by kidrootbeer - 09/08/2017 11:17 am
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Posted 09/08/2017   10:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The manuscript cancel on the OP cover looks different than the Hamilton manuscript shown on R Frajola's site. New postmaster?
It doesn't take much imagination to read the postmark as Han(g)town.
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Edited by littleriverphil - 09/08/2017 11:08 am
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France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 09/08/2017   11:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I read "Hamtons..''
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Posted 09/08/2017   11:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, different postmasters in 1856-57 and 1860. Frickstad's California book referenced previously, reprints many postmaster lists from various sources. Thus a writing comparison between the two covers is not valid.

For those who read Hamton, Hamtons, etc., How do you square this against the post office lists? If it's genuine, it should match some post office listing for the correct time period. For those who dislike the theory of an abbreviated "Hamilton", please propose something that truly fits the PO listings better. I don't have a dog in this fight, but at some point the cover has to match-up with post office records. Good luck, and I'll stop beating my head against the wall on this one.
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Edited by John Becker - 09/08/2017 11:32 am
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United States
565 Posts
Posted 09/08/2017   11:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ciletaliph to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Could it be Norristown, Cal.
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