Dealer Refuses Agreed Upon Return Over Alleged Tarriff

A stamp dealer sells a stamp on the internet.

The stamp is misdescribed- wrong cat number, a $300 cat value versus $1400, plus it has sealed tears and a partial reperf.

Stamp was purchased on an agreed upon extension and comes back with the above mentioned problems.

Dealer agrees to issue full refund of the purchase price, and gives instructions to use USPS to send to dealer's address in Europe.

Traking shows after 2 plus weeks in customs, it is taken for delivery but the recipient refuses to accept it, and that it is being returned to sender.

Upon inquiry, customer is told reason for rejection, that the post authorities asked for a some $50 tariff fee. Nevertheless the form accompanying stamp is marked "returned item".

Are countries now getting tariffs on returned items?

Returned package has not arrived back to buyer 5even 5 weeks later. There is no tracking later than the Sept 2017 rejection. Upon an inquiry by buyer to this dealer about 2 weeks after the dealer refuses accepting the package, he admits that such packages are not tracked after such refusals, so he had knowledge that the refused stamp would not be tracked afterwards.

Dealer makes issue of form marked with "insured" value of $500, about the cost of the initial transaction, and thus what was to be the refund, though the form does not say "insured" but rather "total". Dealer repeatedly in communications ignores the matter that the form was clearly marked "returned item".

Why would not the dealer simply pay the $50 and deduct that from the refund?

Opinions?


*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

Because he doesn't want to pay an extra $50. Do you think maybe the documented value of $500 caused the additional fee?

"Because he doesn't want to pay an extra $50. Do you think maybe the documented value of $500 caused the additional fee?"

You are not making sense.

1- Extra? He could have deducted that (so far unsubstantiated alleged fee) from the refund. Did you not read the second part of my sentence that you quote: "...and deduct that from the refund?"

2- Doubtful, sans any indication to the contrary that returns are now so subjected. Did you not see my statement that it was marked as a *returned* good? Nor my question whether there has been some changed regulation anywhere that returns are subject to a tariff.

Irregardless, whether there was such an actual legitimate fee, it was relatively small compared to the agreed upon refund, and could have been deducted from the refund- a reality which I clearly stated and which you clearly just chose to ignore.

You likewise ignore the matter of the dealer's apparent desire to retain $500 on an item he clearly misidentified with the result of fetching a higher price, with the $1400 cat value of the alleged but incorrect cat number displayed in the listing's title.

You are OK with a dealer being dishonest in their listings, failure to honor agreed upon returns, and creating worse problems? The seller knew beforehand that the returned package would not be tracked, and seemed only interested in having an insurance claim pay for his trickiness.

How does such ways of doing business square with any philatelic society code of ethics?

A simple question - did you include receipt (with sellers full business detail and VAT number) with the returned item? If there is no receipt, then the customs is just doing their job when trying to collect 20% VAT. Additionally, if there is no original receipt, then the dealer may not reclaim VAT collected (meaning the money would go within the system permanently).

Possibly the simplest thing here would be not to argue with dealer, but contact the customs of the country in question, explain the situation and ask what kind of details/documents do they need.

-k-

No, (no paypal receipt, but perhaps a print of the ebay sale) none of that was asked of me asides from checking the box indicating that it was a returned good.

Presumably the dealer would know his VAT number which he never provided me, and which he could have probably provided to the postman along with any needed documentation.

But he had zero excuse to simply refuse the item causing it to be lost. He could have paid it (about $50), provided the necessary paperwork and if necessary deducted the supposed fee from the refund (about $500).

His attitude such as utterly ignoring that I marked it as a returned good, confusing a total value as insured value, combined with the weirdness of the package not being tracked afterwards and "lost" reeks inmo of an insurance scam to attempt an insurance payment to protect the grossly inflated price he got for the stamp (which he caused to be so "lost") from mis-describing it.

If this charge was legitimate, than I should have been notified by Belgian customs of the need to supply additional paperwork. Once I asked about the paperwork, the "dealer" stopped responding to my communications.

Douglas, this was an ebay sale....did you contact ebay ?

Douglas - Did you ever receive a proper receipt of purchase (with VAT-number or business-ID)? Within EU all legit business must provide receipts that show both business name as well VAT-number as well as possible exceptions to it (and business-ID). And receipts must be shipped with goods as proof for customs etc. No exceptions to it.

If there was no such receipt, it would then suggest that the dealer was not a business, in which scenario the whole 'returned goods' thing was doomed for failure straight from the start. It works only when the selling party is a business.

Also, if the seller was a business, you are pretty well covered by European/Belgian consumer legislation and you should contact Belgian consumer authorities for misuse. But if the seller was not a business, well then there's very little you can do besides filing a civil charge through Belgian officials.

And yes, if ebay sale, then contacting ebay is MUST.

-k-

Thanks!

Yes I contacted ebay. They have informed me that the seller is entirely at fault for causing the loss of the stamp by his refusal to receive it. That I fulfilled my obligation by sending it to him with tracking. And that he is at fault for his refusal thus causing a "return" without any tracking. Also, I am informed by the same ebay rep that I am covered even though it is past the 30 days because there is a communications history regarding this transaction between seller and buyer through the ebay message system. A claim is now filed with ebay.

I have dealt with this stamp source from Belgium on numerous occasions for a few years. Never had any problems. All of the purchases were less expensive, the most so being for about $225. Also never had any sort of receipt nor VAT number supplied with any of these purchases. Never.

I chose to purchase the item now in question on extension because it was presented as a cat number that could be mistaken from a far less expensive stamp owing to a subtle difference in color. Upon getting the cert, I found that it was the wrong cat and had some faults unmentioned in the listing, but described on the cert: "...with a sealed tear at top, and a sealed horizontal scissors cut at lower left, where it is partially reperforated".

I asked the seller for a partial refund reflecting the difference between the mis-description and the reality but he insisted on the return not to his alternate address in the US in Florida, but to his address in Belgium. It remained in Belgian customs for 2+ weeks without any notification from any officials that there was any problems with the paperwork.

The certificate.

A shame. I have dealt with victoire1 in the past and it was a pretty good experience.

That it is.

I had always liked him as a source and had viewed him as an asset to ebay.

I have dealt with him as well, no problems here either. I have had to return items to his Belgian address as well, just sent regular mail as it was not terribly expensive.

I hate to burst everyone's bubble but that is simply not the case.

I see too many of his mistakes that work out better for him than his buyers.

Sigh, ebay has for years provided the option for EU-based business sellers to print VAT invoices (under 'print postage labels' page). It is definitely buyers fault that he did not provide you with proper printed VAT invoice. But, as buyer you should have also required to receive one; especially as when you were about to send the stamp back, you should have familiarized with what kind of documents the customs expect. This may seem harsh, but IMHO both of you could have done better to avoid the unfortunate events that happened. But live & learn, that is what doing business internationally is all about...

-k-

Why is it the buyers problem? As a buyer, why should I care what the sellers required documentation are in their home territory?