Is This A Fake I Grill?

When something is too good to be true... Well this stamp appears to have an I grill. The measurement is right at 8.5mm x 10mm. But it can't be right? Either I'm sitting on a philatelic find or -
much more likely - something else is going on here. Unless someone can find the flaw it clearly needs to go the PF. Anyone able to save me a trip to Manhattan?

Rick

It can still be a faint H grill which is often not complete. The known 10c stamps come with early state I grill only, yours looks more like a late state I grill or H grill.

am I correct that the distance between grill points is different for H and I grills? If so then if I compare to a certified H grill that could help clarify if it's an incomplete H - true?

I'd like to see a scan of the front.

As requested:

Not the grill expert, but ran this through Retroreveal. Wondering what these marks are for by red arrows? I can kind of make out a grill pattern relating to the dashes. Please wait till someone more knowledgeable posts.


I worked on this last night, dont have the answer but going to post anyway.

I ran retro reveal as well - didn't seem to show any hidden grill points, but happy to take any feedback. The two lines are pencil marks. Whoever wrote "139" and the big lines right through the grill was not very careful. Those lines are plainly visible on the back of the stamp.

Still waiting for the experts to chime in, but your first measurement points to this being an I grill. Doesn't look like a typical obvious fake, in fact looks quite correct.

The points say I-grill (BTW, don't measure distance, count points), but the look says H-grill to me. On the surface, it looks genuine (at least from what I can see in the scans) but I'd compare the spacing of grill points to a known genuine, like a 3c (rarely faked). Do you think it's unused?

I've tried to compare the spacing to a couple H grills I have but I'm finding it hard to be conclusive. My H grills are quite faint and I can't quite get a handle on it. Yes, it appears unused which of course makes this all the more unlikely. At this point I'm making a trip to the PF for a couple other items anyway. Looks like this will be going along for the ride. If it really turns out to be legit, I'm buying everyone a round.

rlsny, I'd scan the backs of the stamps next to each other, then overlay the "control" grill at a lower opacity (like 50%) and line it up as best you can with this grill. See if the spacing of points lines up well. If points on the "control" are hard to see, a light graphite rub will help. A comparison along these lines should be straightforward if you have a well-defined control grill to compare against.

thank you for your hints, srailkb. I also had a similar question some time ago but no answers to it:
https://goscf.com/t/56657#56657

I also have a 10c with a weak grill, and it seems that you can see a rectangle from an I grill size. I will make some grill point spacing comparison as well (and then continue there as this here is not my topic).

But in general the question: it seems that also for 10c stamps a late state I grill is possible and in addition one being incomplete?

I tried that idea of reducing opacity and overlaying. Good idea. It looks like the points on the certified H grill are slightly closer together than the points on this stamp. Doing some basic math: 8.5mm / 10 columns = .85mm might be a guess for I grill separation. 10mm / 12 columns = .83mm might be a guess for H grill. Unfortunately this isn't feeling very scientific yet.

R

You might try "Sonic Imagery Labs Precision U. S. Specialty Multi-Gauge" it has a grid for overlaying on a grill to check the spacing and alignment. It is available from many sources including:

http://www.smpiller.com/Perfgauge.htm

Price is $16.00 including S & H for non-California residents.

Done. Been meaning to buy this for a while.

I just wanted to use the Multigauge for comparing H vs. I grill concerning the grill point spacing. But as I noticed, the Multigauge does not make any difference there: The grill point spacing is exactly the same for: G, H, I and J grill. So no option there to use the Multigauge for that.

That brings us back to the main question of this and also my mentioned thread: How can you differentiate H vs. I grill if the grill is not complete and not good to see?

For the early states it's easier, but what about the late states of both grill types and how to compare them, or what would the PF do in our both examples? Maybe they will do what srailkb suggested with overlaying grill templates - this would mean that the grill point spacing is different for H and I grills as a fact, but then I would wonder why it took so many years to get accepted that they are two grill types.