A New Poster's Ebay Observations

For the last 10 years, I have been attempting to "virtually" complete a U.S. Definitive, commemorative, airmail, special delivery, postage due, official and periodical collection. Needless to say, it has been a daunting task. Auction companies like Siegel, Kelleher, Cherrystone and others have been very helpful in my quest to fill the rarities. However, ebay, which should theoretically be my #1 resource, has proven to be an utter disappointment. I would further contend that ebay has been detrimental to the growth of the hobby as a whole. With all of the misattributed, doctored, faulty, counterfeit and deceptive copies that I encounter nightly on my searches, I wonder how we ever expect to lure new collectors. ebay is such an un-policed minefield, I get downright angry seeing the level of deception; when I bring examples to ebay's attention (one extremely "experienced" seller from NJ comes to mind), I get the "we will look into it" response. Of course this seller uses no-reserve auctions to sell an array of "rare" stamps such as Washington Franklin "coils" with trimmed perforations, imperforate commons with added perforations to resemble rarities, bluish papers which are not blue, and other "rare" varieties which are not even close to being what's represented. Of course, none of this seller's stamps EVER come w/ expertization. This wouldn't be so troubling if this were an isolated incident, but it isn't. In my quest to locate rare stamps for my collection, I find these types of aforementioned listings nightly on ebay. I would go so far as to say perhaps 1 in 10 stamps which catalog at over $1000 are accurately described and represented on ebay. ebay has really enforced the coin (numismatic) side of their platform with numerous rules regulations and guidelines, but the philatelic side is nothing short of the Wild West. It's really a shame, as ebay could be a great marketplace for all collectors from novices to experienced, but with their lack of concern about anything other than collecting seller's fees, I really don't see it happening. This is my first post on this forum, so I have no idea what other collector's experiences have been. But, with ebay posting more philatelic listings than all other venues combined, I'm sure that someone will share a personal experience or two. Or perhaps, I'm just jaded.....

Completely agree. ebay is a joke. A very bad joke.

Yep, you're jaded. Use your knowledge to identify a couple of reputable dealers and ebay can be a convenient, always-available, efficient market offering fair value and good buyer protection. There is a recent thread here about good-quality online dealers. Find it using the Search function and use those dealers, and your knowledge, not searches focused on catalog number regardless of dealer reputation.

Of course, if you prefer higher prices, 18 to 20 percent buyer commissions, graded certificates and so forth, keep right on using the upper end auction houses. Since you're collecting images, that should be fine, but let's not say that ebay has zero utility. It just requires knowledge and discretion, and accepting the platform for what it is. Endless griping about it's faults isn't going to result in any changes with it. It is what it is, because of the business model they have adopted.

I always find the bad-mouthing of ebay fascinating. I don't collect/exhibit "high end" material, so am less impacted by ebay problems. Over the past 20 years, I've formed 25+ collections/exhibits. I can accurately say that NONE of these exhibits/collections would exist to the extent they do without ebay. Certainly none of my exhibits would have been worth showing. Many/some of my collections/exhibits are relatively narrow in focus and the great advantage of ebay is having access to worldwide sellers. For one of my exhibits, I've purchased material from sellers in over 30 countries. This is material that would not have been available to me without ebay. I'm fortunate in living in an area where I'm able to personally attend 5-6 national level (U.S.) shows annually; seldom am I able to find material for some/many of my collections/exhibits. I am not trying to minimize the legitimate problems that exist on ebay but, for me, ebay has been essential to developing my collections/exhibits.

What is one simple rule that the coin seller have follow that stamp sellers do not have to care about?

To me that would be a start.

I have always been ambivalent towards ebay. Without question ebay is a great resource for anyone who has the experience and knowledge to sort through the sea of listings. But this sea also can be deadly for those who are not experienced or knowledgeable. I think it is best for newer hobbyists to stay near the shoreline of the sea, close to some lifeguards, before wandering into deeper waters.

I think that whether ebay helps or harms the hobby in the long run remains to be determined.
Don

There are elements of truth in all the above postings.

It is, however, a bit like going online and searching for anyone who's selling anything to try and complete your collection of, say, Tiffany lamps.

If you're looking for quality, high-end philatelic items with a high chance of getting your money back if there are defects, undetected flaws, or downright misdescriptions, you shouldn't be checking out ebay, unless you narrow your search to ONLY trusted, reputable sellers. (there's a checkmark for that, near the bottom, in your ebay "advance search")

Trustworthy reputable dealers ARE out there, and many of them and even some auction houses use ebay often. It is often hard to pry out of many advanced collectors, but they will sometimes share their list of trusted ebay sellers with you if you are willing to reciprocate. Many, however, hide the fact they use ebay so often for fear, I think, of being thought gullible, or cheap, or some other negative reason. Then of course others jealously "guard" their ebay or other online sources out of sheer greed or vanity.

--Jim Wentzell
stampguyaps177-681

I can tell you many dealers full-and part-time are buying ebay and other online auction site items, mostly or often for resale, and definitely NOT mentioning this "provenance" to their buyers.

Some dubious items definitely are being re-sold to unsuspecting collectors, often with the seller not weeding out the misidentified or inspecting better items carefully, in hopes of turning a quick profit. Often these falsely id'd, faulty or fake items are "salted" in a collection or accumulation, to enhance the appeal to someone merely glancing quickly at a show or dealer table.

That's a simple fact of the modern philatelic marketplace, and we all need to be aware of these sometimes slimy sellers and their enablers.

Some ebay sellers should be on a blacklist, somewhere. Or call them out on it. BUY their items (cheaper ones) and leave negative feedback, as long as you're truthful. It might make a difference.


If it seems too good to be true, it likely IS.


--Jim Wentzell
stampguyaps177-681

I appreciate everybody's feedback, and thank you all for allowing this new poster to say his piece.....

To address a few of the aforementioned points, I do not find that honest material sells for any more through Siegel or one of the other auction houses than it does on ebay. Conversely, I am often competing against resellers at these auctions, many of whom relist the same items on ebay at inflated fixed prices. Yes, the auction houses charge buyer's fees, but as most experienced bidders realize, I figure these fees into my bids. So for instance, if I am prepared to pay $1000 for a stamp, I bid $850 knowing that I have to pay a 15% commission. I do not consider PF, APEX, Weiss certificates ( or others) a "bad thing", nor am I reluctant to pay a slight premium to obtain them, since almost without fail, this premium is recouped when and if I decide to sell my stamps. I notice this same willingness to pay more for certed stamps on ebay, as well.

As far as coin sellers, I can shed a little light on this subject since I have been a full time professional numismatist for over 30 years. For one, we are required by ebay to sell ONLY PCGS, NGC, ANACS or ICG certified coins when and if we use a numerical grade as part of our description or title. In "stamp terms" we can't call a coin MNH, OG, Sound or any other condition descriptor without the verification of reliable and trusted certification. Is that implying that we as professional dealers don't possess the ability to accurately grade our coins? Absolutely not! This is simply a protection that ebay affords the buyer to insure them that they are getting what they pay for. I think that ebay should consider requiring sellers of any stamp with a catalog value of say over $1000, to extend their return privilege so that the buyer may obtain expertization through PF, APEX or some other reputable authenticator, even if it exceeds the standard 14-30 days. I know that some ebay sellers offer this, but certainly not the majority.

One piece of sound advice that I definitely will take away from this is the trusted seller search, and to seek out those specific individuals. As an APS member, I also prefer dealing with fellow members, since there is a belief that most of us subscribe to their code of ethics.

I use ebay frequently, and I am not implying that I personally find it intimidating or even dangerous. However, I think we all must consider the harm that comes from a totally unregulated marketplace. Our hobby is not enjoying growth, and there are many reasons for this outside of ebay. But in the same breath, if we can't use the worlds largest online marketplace to lure and entice new collectors on board, and to do so with some sense of security, than at the very least, there is room for improvement.