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A Double Overprint That Isn't (Rja Series)

 
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Rest in Peace
United States
1738 Posts
Posted 12/16/2017   7:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add James Drummond to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
A narcotic stamp that catalogs at $12.50 (used) being offered as a $49 error of some kind (possibly).

So I sent the seller the following note.

Jim


Quote:
Hi,

Thought you might be interested in knowing that this overprint was used in Detroit, Michigan.

As that internal revenue office applied their overprint with a brayer-type device, it is typical that the stamps receive about three "narcotic" impressions.

As you can see, the straight edge on the top of the stamp shows that the roller device had just been applied or removed from the pane of stamps.

The bottom line is that the double overprint is not an error of any kind; it is simply how this particular overprint was created.

Regards,

Jim


https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-RJA14-N...AOSwFyhaNDnh

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Rest in Peace
United States
1189 Posts
Posted 12/16/2017   7:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I used to try to correct sellers. It worked about one in ten and about three in ten, I'd get an irate "mind your own business" type of reply.

Hopefully, this seller will listen to you.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 12/16/2017   8:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
i, too, sent him a similar message. No response as of yet.
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Ron Lesher
Rest in Peace
United States
1738 Posts
Posted 12/19/2017   5:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As pretty much expected, there has been no reply from the seller, and no change to the item description or starting price.

Oh well, guess I needed the typing practice...

Jim


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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 12/19/2017   6:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A 5 minute look at the rest of his prices would probably prove the futility of trying.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 12/19/2017   6:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The message I sent to the seller was:
"Too bad the stamp has a straight edge and is a bit soiled. There is a partial strike of the NARCOTIC at top. The NARCOTIC is believed to have been applied by a roller in the office of the Michigan District Collector of Internal Revenue. A more complete rendering of the perfin is "Det" which the Perfin Club says is from the city of Detroit. That seems to me to be wrong, because it does not seem likely that the city was making or selling medicinal narcotics in 1919. Given the condition and appearance I doubt that you will entice any buyers at your start price."

The seller did respond to me, as follows:
"Thank you for the back story. :) As far as price....time will illuminate."
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Ron Lesher
Edited by revenuermd - 12/19/2017 6:55 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 12/19/2017   6:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jim,

I would be interested in your thoughts about the perfin "Det" that occurs frequently on these narcotic handstamps from Michigan. The Perfin Club's catalog attributes this perfin to the City of Detroit. I have a bit of cognitive dissonance when I think of the city of Detroit needing narcotic stamps.
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Ron Lesher
Rest in Peace
United States
1738 Posts
Posted 12/19/2017   9:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ron,

This is what I have found for this cancel.

Jim

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 12/20/2017   06:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Jim,

Thanks very much for the identification of the user of the "Det" perfin. There is at least one other user of the Michigan district provisional narcotic stamps. I have the 1¢ with a manuscript cancel of H.J.C. & Co. Any thoughts?
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Ron Lesher
Rest in Peace
United States
1738 Posts
Posted 12/20/2017   10:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ron

Could you email and/or post an image please?

Thanks

Jim
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 12/20/2017   9:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have a Det perfin; I also have a couple of those unreadable broken pins versions.
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Rest in Peace
United States
1738 Posts
Posted 12/20/2017   10:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As you can see, the one that I showed is incomplete.

If you have a more complete example, would you mind e-mailing me a 600 dpi scan of it please?

Thanks

Jim
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 12/20/2017   10:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Tomorrow.
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Rest in Peace
United States
1738 Posts
Posted 09/05/2018   9:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Somewhat bravely resurrecting an ancient post:

I am now rethinking this perfin cancel, in that it is in fact from the Parke, Davis and Company, instead of the Detroit First Aid Company.

This is based on:

1) Parke, Davis was headquartered in Detroit, Michigan, and they used a LOT of stamps (meaning that their perfin canceler might have some broken or misplaced pins). The multiple "narcotic" overprint is definitely from Detroit.

2) The only other company that used perfin cancels on narcotic stamps was Winthrop Laboratories and Winthrop - Sterns Incorporated (WL and WS perfin, respectively).

I realize that the sort-of "Det" cancel doesn't exactly line up with the "P D Co" cancel.

Parke, Davis and Company also had a facility in Kansas City, Missouri, which used the "narcotics" overprinted stamps, as shown below.

I realize that there are maybe six people on the planet that are even slightly interested in this issue, but I thought that I'd throw the idea out for some feedback.

Could the sort-of "Det" perfin cancel actually be a very worn and damaged perfin "P D Co.?"

Jim


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Bedrock Of The Community
12569 Posts
Posted 09/05/2018   9:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am interested so that makes seven.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
867 Posts
Posted 09/06/2018   08:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revenuermd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with the PD Co perfin's use in New York and in Kansas City. The fact that we do not see PD Co perfin in Detroit and conflating it with the Det perfin (albeit with broken pins) does not compute with me. I had found your matching the Det perfin with Detroit First Aid to be interesting. The Det identification by The Perfin Club with the City of Detroit never sat well with me, so your proposal with Detroit First Aid seemed more plausible. Park Davis seems less plausible to me. Is it possible that Park Davis did not manufacture narcotics in Detroit? Only in New York and Kansas City? Beyond the cancels I have no evidence to support my alternative scenario.
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Ron Lesher
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