Anthony's Llc Dismal PF Report Card = Follow Up To 10/23/17 Discussion

Neither. Most people here are wanting to ebay to take action. As a business subject to legal constraints, a higher burden of proof is needed than anonymous reporters clicking a button that offers no context or explanation. That reporting mechanism is intended for black-and-white listing violations, nothing more.

For example, if ebay were to take action after the first (or 2nd or Nth) report (without any context or justification, mind you), and it proved to be unfounded, it is possible that ebay could be vulnerable to action by sellers, since the sellers are ones with the contractual relationship with ebay, not unnamed anonymous reporters that have no transactional relationship on the item in question.

You're viewing this entire issue solely through the lens of "what is right", and that plays well in Utopia, but when it comes to real-world business decisions, contractual obligations, terms of service, etc., "what is right" has no standing.

If someone is ripped off by a seller, they have recourse through ebay's buyer protection policies, beyond that through PayPal's protection, beyond that through credit card chargebacks, and beyond that through Civil court.

An ebay buyer really does have many layers of protection.

Instead, what you're wanting is to fix/sanction/ban the seller, and that can only occur when the offenses are clear cut violations of ebay's terms. If Anthony's is defrauding buyers to such a large extent, then presumably their ratings should drop to the point where ebay will sanction them. If that is not occurring, then the majority of their buyers are happy... possibly because they don't realize they are bing ripped off. And sadly that is something that can ONLY be fixed by educating prospective buyers, not through ebay reporting.

The first thing ebay is going to do is look at Anthony's feedback, DSR, and buyer defects. All of these other discussions are simply noise in the ebay ecosphere.

A group of people, no matter how large, citing OPINIONS about the legitimacy of an item, is likely not conclusive in the eyes of eBays terms of service.

There is a reason that Siegel will not accept a return on any lot that has a PF certificate 5 years or less than 5 years old. If an item does not have a certificate and you have it reviewed by the PF with a negative opinion Siegel will refund the sale price plus up to $800 in expertization fees. The policy speaks volumes about the trust they place in the PF. An opinion by the PF carries weight. The implication that it is only another opinion and everyone has one yada yada yada is nonsense. A PF certificate carries a whole lot of weight.

Yes. Within the philatelic community, and out of convention not law. These opinions are not legally binding and there is nothing obligating any business entity to adhere to them.

Again, that is why they are called "expertizing opinions" not "expertizing legal determinations" or "expertizing matters of fact".

The phony baloney feedback ratings always rear their head. Anthony's has excellent feedback after the negatives have been summarily removed. The positives are great because a whole lot of buyers have no idea that they have been duped and they really do not know any better. They were happy that they scored a deal and the shipping was good! In all likelyhood the stamp will change hands again sooner or later and maybe somebody sends it off for expertization or maybe they don't. One bad sale can cause damage well beyond itself. Just imagine how many 315's are parked in albums right now that Anthony's sold and the owners are sooooo excited that they filled that space and it was cheap, cheap, cheap!

There are no subject matter experts in any field that offer legally binding opinions but their input decides peoples fate every single day in legal proceedings.

By the way, when you bid in a Siegel auction the opinion of a PF certificate is legally binding. It is part and parcel of the terms & conditions. You enter into a contract when you win a lot and agree to be BOUND by those terms and conditions which include the PF opinions being final.

Yes, because those are Siegel's terms and you are purchasing FROM Siegel. Those terms do not extend to any other seller or venue, unless those sellers or venues choose to treat PF certs the same way. It's not inherent to the PF cert; Siegel could just as easily choose to honor certs from "Bob's Stamp Expertizing and Lawnmower Repair."

I find it interesting that Anthony's has this in their Terms and Conditions


Nothing like requiring a person to give up one of their basic rights in this country just to buy some stamps from them. Does this not cause anyone else pause?
Don

Apparently it's not that uncommon:

http://www.trimprulaw.com/understan...ial-waivers/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB109269232752592826

It has been an entertaining thread. We have gone to our respective corners. Enjoyed it. I look forward to seeing if the listing that was reported by at least a dozen people stays up.

I don't think much more to debate here on this thread.

But I will take a shot at APS and ask the question why a bunch of guys and gals on a message board have become the police? Where are they in all this?

The Police broke up when Sting wanted to have a solo career.
This answer is as meaningful to this thread as any other regarding the police.

Every stamp you take, every post you make, I'll be watching you...

Aarrrggghhhh - we're reduced to creating horrid doggerel now!