Philatelic References?

This may be a stupid question, but I will ask it anyway...

I was interested in signing up for an account at a well-known stamp auction house and one of the requirements was to provide philatelic references. What exactly are they looking for? In this day and age, I'm mostly buying my stamps more from online sources like ebay, Stamps-2-Go, and the APS stamp store rather than from specific dedicated dealers who know my name.

What about individual collectors (as opposed to dealers) I regularly purchase stamps from?
What about being a 25+ year APS member?
What about the editor of a philatelic newsletter or blog that I've written for?

Any of these count as "philatelic references". I just need to provide a person's name and e-mail address?

Thanks for any advice,
Chris

Think about it from their perspective. You're asking to buy on credit, at least for a short period. Therefore, they're looking for names that they recognize of people you have paid for stamps in the past, without non-payment problems or other disputes.

Examples could include APS StampStore, nationally known dealers, regional dealers with a verifiable website, associations that sell to members, clubs that do member-to-member sales, and so forth. Being a 25-year APS member also "counts," because APS would kick you out if you had defrauded a member or dealer who reported you.

Having said this, try submitting what you have. My experience with this is that if your references pass a minimal sanity test, you'll be in. They don't have time to phone a collector in Peoria from whom you bought a lot of stamps.

Chris,

Alternatively, what worked for me when I was first starting out and didn't know any dealers was the following.

(But only do this is you're comfortable with it).

I sent my checking account number and the telephone number of my bank to a dealer in advance of a purchase.

This is so that the dealer could verify that I had sufficient funds in the account to cover any potential check written to him.

Of course, if your average daily balance is minimal, this won't work too well.

This was in the days before ATMs and online banking, but it helped to establish credit, for me.

Jim

You can also call the auction firm and talk with them. I did that with a couple of them, including Kelleher and had no problem being approved.

I agree with stampman, just call them up. I've found auction firms to be very easy to deal with and they always need new customers.

I don't buy on ebay. But my observation is that a number of dealers who sell there are identifiable by name. ebay sellers are not all in the "vest pocket (part time)" category.

Several years ago, I submitted a first ever bid to a well known mail auction house. I used my APS number and gave the date I joined. To my surprise, the dealer shipped me my purchases; around $1,000 worth; without invoicing me first and then waiting for the check to clear. I may or may not have given a dealer reference; there isn't a place on the bid sheet for references. Result of the story is that your APS number has more power than you might think.

Yes, similar, but to be fair, that was focused on joining stamp club and this is specific for getting an account with an auction house...maybe different kinds of references wanted?

Thanks for everyone's comments. I will try to provide a dealer I have purchased from, plus my APS number.

Here, in Great Britain, it seems to be much easier:
most auction houses are asking for your name and address. Some might ask your bank card details, but only for remote bids.
If you win a lot and you don't pay it then they simply don't give you the items
No references required

Chris:

I didn't make myself clear -- I just meant to imply that it seems like everyone wants a "reference"

Kirk

If you mention ebay, give your handle and feedback rating. Something they can verify that shows you complete what you start.

Are you an APS member? I think it might suffice to tell them and give your card number.

Don

Based on the replies in this thread, I assume things have not changed. When I first signed up for one of the larger auction houses many years ago, an established APS membership (not new) was more than sufficient (although I could also have provided them with dealer references). Alternatively, they would have accepted a credit card on file if I had no references. I was quite surprised that they shipped my auction winnings without my having to pay for it first. Surprised because other small auctions had always required I pay first (they didn't require references), and because I was a first-time customer with winnings that were not a trivial amount. They won over a customer for decades -- although I've learned over the years that they do run into problems with non-paying or buyer's-remorse customers.

I was quite impressed with the level of customer service/trust for most (not all) of the major and mid-level auction houses. Keep up on the forum threads and you will know which ones have a history of giving customers a lot of hassles or have developed recent troubles with customer service.

How far away are you from the auction house?

I've bought stuff from the high-end London auctioneers in the past (Harmers, Grosvenor), and they have all that 'philatelic references' flapdoodle in their catalogues etc., but when I walked in on the day of the auction and asked if it was it ok to bid if I just paid cash at the end of the sale, they said, "Sure", even though I was very shabbily dressed.

For Harmers, I was then on their database and got all the catalogues mailed to me. Grosvenor haven't done this, but I'm not keen on going back to them anyway. Their lot descriptions, estimates and realized prices are totally out of whack, so your viewing could end up as a huge waste of time.