German Documents Reunited With Owner

could someone who can read German at least I think its German tell me what this says PLEASE



*** Edited by Staff to clarify topic title. Titles are important! ***

It maybe a property, land deed!

Mike

It's a copy of a deed, produced at a later date:


And it's from a town in Austria.

well Thank you Glenn I've got a nice little amount of stuff from this era that I have no clue what it says.Can you tell me what these are?

The first, from Dijon in France, is a copy of a birth record for Liliane Henriette Carmen Saugerette, born in Dijon on 28 June 1921 at 2am, parents Henri Eugene Saugerette and Carmen Genevieve Lucienne Albertine Metral, his spouse, living at Dijon.

The second is from the Commissioner for Refugees for the city of Munich. It appears to be an identity document for one Mrs. Aloisia Trollbann, born January 23, 1888 in Vienna, "is unlawful border-crosser from Austria", and "becomes, according to possession, the City Secretary, directed to attend on 31 August 1948, at the Shelding warehouse." She was directed to attend this warehouse (where there was an office, perhaps?) and sign up, assumably for a hearing.

"The previously named has an endorser for an entry pass for support, and has herself from now, 4 days in warehouse to sign up." She was given a time limit to attend.

The page next to it appears to be a report on the results of the meeting that took place. It seems that she gave a report in opposition to her deportation from Germany at the Immigration Office on 30 November 1948; assumably, she claimed that the Immigration regulations didn't apply, I'm guessing because she had gone to Munich when Austria was absorbed into Germany in the Anschluss of 1938, and this naturalized her. She was granted a residence permit, as a result. NOTE that this individual is the same one who was named in the copy of the deed that you originally posted.

The gray folder is her identity papers, issued 2 December 1948.

The next appears to be either a bank statement or receipt (I can't quite make it out) from 1952.

As for the last document, it appears to be a statement from her guarantor in regard to her immigration hearing, showing that she has a job, but I could be wrong. The scan is a little hard to read, but it mentions a Mrs. Dr. Borger, assumably her employer, or the person who was agreeing to be financially responsible for her if she was not able to find work, or it could be just a statement as to her good character.

Very interesting. The first document, the birth extract from Dijon, France has nothing to do with the rest of the documents, but the rest of them tell us something about Aloisia Trollmann, nee Kutaleck, most of it occurring when she was at the age of 60. We find that she was born in Vienna in 1888, and that at the age of 29, in 1917, she was a schoolteacher in the village of Eberstein, in the south of Austria, where she owned land. Eventually, she married Trollmann, but it is unclear when. It is also unclear whether Trollman was Austrian or German, and whether she married him in Austria before moving to Munich or met him in Germany after she moved there. For some reason, she needed a certified copy of her land ownership in January 1946; perhaps she needed it so she could sell the land. She ran afoul of the Immigration officials, who questioned whether she was entitled to be in Germany, but proved her case, either because she was naturalized by either the Anschluss or by marriage. She is issued an identity-card on which her occupation is described as "Haushalterin" -- housekeeper. Assumably, by this time, she was widowed, Trollman either dying naturally or as a civilian casualty of the war. She lived at least until 1952, as is testified by the receipt from the Bavarian Credit Bank.

She lived during interesting times, and on the losing side during both World Wars. She saw the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and it's later collapse; the early years of the Austrian Republic and all of its problems, the rise of Hitler, the Anschluss and absorption of her country into the Greater German Reich and the demise of the Third Reich, and the post-war period including the rebuilding of Germany through the Marshall Plan.

Very historic, and very interesting.

Glenn I have more I just posted a few here are some more

the 1st picture is Horst Trollhann

the 2nd photo is of Horst and Lilian Trollhann im sure you can tell which one is Lilian the rest are of Horst

and this last picture is of Horst when young and then older and the other guy is im not sure but im guessing that is him younger then older looks like the same guy what do you think?

Wow.

The first picture is of Horst's identification book (Meldungsbuch = "Message Book") when he was attending the German Technical High School in Prague, Czechoslovakia. Most German citizens carried with them what is known as an Arbeitsbuch ("Workbook"), which served as identification and also showed what their occupation was, the Meldungsbuch was a little more intensive, acting as an identification, agenda, and report card, showing the classes taken and, at the end of the term, marks received, which was officially stamped.

It appears that both pictures are of Horst, as the signature underneath matches on both.

In the second frame, we see Horst as a Privat in the Wehrmacht. The two other pictures appear to date from the early '50s, and the one with Lilian looks to have been taken against a cable car of the type used in the mountains.

In the third frame, the picture at 12 o'clock again appears to date from the early 50s, and the one to the right is again from the Wehrmacht. The other two pictures are of someone else; the family grouping on the bottom appears to date from the late 20's or early 30's, judging from the ladies' hairstyles. The picture on the left appears to me older -- and I'm guessing from the moustache and goatee, that it dates from a period between just before the end of World War I to just afterward. The moustache and goatee looks very Prussian and isn't as white as in the family picture. Regrettably, I am unable to identify any of the medals or orders the man is wearing, and it is likely that they are regalia from some sort of organization as is the head covering.

Family history, Tina?

Family friend history well she was she died some years back that would be Lilian Trollhann she was a neighbor of ours for many,many years and my mom became the ?????? of her estate sorry couldnt spell that word but im sure you know what I mean.After she had passed away my mom needed my help to clean out her house,and you could tell that she had been through the war that woman was going to make sure she never went without again,i counted 52 cans of black olives,and she must have had 30plus bottles of shampoo,and in one of the spare rooms in the closet in order from darkest color on down to lightest color must have been 60 pair of pants,she lived in a 4 bedroom house all by herself.If you were to have locked her in her house and she was unable to get out she could have survived for at least 5 years without leaving I wish when she was alive I would have talked to her about her life but back then I wasnt interested like I am now.Alot of the stamps that I have were Horst and then some from my blood grandfather

Interesting. You're right, I can imagine the stories she could have told. Your mother was the Executrix of her Estate, and to an extent she was lucky because she wasn't related. I had to be the Executor of my mother's Estate, and cleaning out the house was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, because everything was full of memories.

Yes Glenn you are right there,when Lilian died she had no family left she adored my mom and it was a big chore to clean that house out

is there any comments on these items from anybody else?

Hello Tina,

my name is Jörg and I am from germany. I have randomly searched the internet for "Horst Trollhann" who is a relative of me and found your forum post with pictures and documents that belong to Horst!!

He is still alive and lives together with my grandmother here in germany. I visit them every now and then. They are both 95 now and always talk about old times and the war. Is there any possibility that I could buy the documents from you or at least get a copy so I can show them to Horst? He would be very happy to see all that stuff.

I hope you receive this message even though you have not been active here for years...

If you need a proof then I can send you a picture of Horst how he looks today :)

regards and hoping to hear from you,
Jörg

Jorg, Guten Tag:

I have forwarded your message to Tina via eMail.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

The power of the internet at work. What a great connection.

Wait 'til Tina finds out that what Jorg really wants is a kidney.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Jörg,

Tina no longer has possession of those documents. I have the Meldungsbuch, the Studienbuch and some letters on Horst Trollhann's stationary circa 1966.

I purchased some stamps from Tina in 2009 and these documents were included.

I would be more than happy to reunite the documents with their owner! No money is necessary.

I need your address. For your own security, please don't post your address here. You can email me directly at dansom@aol.com and we can proceed from there.

It will be good to give these a home where they can be appreciated!
Dan