I Have A Question About A Stamp

Hi guys,
I bought some stamps from auction at a ware house and found a Scott 180 Jackson 2 cent. I know that it might be impossible to find one but it is on Hard paper not soft. I put it next to my ear and snapped it and it has aloud sound. Could I have found a rare stamp? It has a cancel but it is possible. Stamp catalog hasnt listed one as use so how much would it be worth?

start here:

http://www.theswedishtiger.com/ID.html

Or start here
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Ma...erTypes.html

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa...tml#Scott135

http://www.stampsmarter.com/1847usa...Note02c.html

Don

And pay particular attention to the information on Scott #178.

It's most unfortunate, people keep repeating the same things over and over about banknote papers, and here's another example of the same.

ATTENTION: The Fundamentals of Philately are calling the 19th Century US Specialized Catalog, and they want their papers back.

Case in point, the above collector looks up a stamp in the catalog, finds the word "soft," and then attempts to identify the paper on that basis. Actually, there's nothing soft about soft paper, and correspondingly, nothing hard about hard paper.

Recognizing the incongruity, specialists now begin to call it "soft porous paper," as if that makes a difference.

Let's play a game! Consider the Washington-Franklin Issues, only we'll use pseudonyms instead of actual names for the printing presses. Flat plate printing we'll call "hard press." Rotary press printing we'll call "intermediate press." And, offset printing we'll call "soft press." Now, describe the kinds of stamps produced by each of the Hard, Intermediate, and Soft Presses? Specialists could go round-and-round on this discussion, but the fact remains--there is no direct relationship between the pseudonyms and the stamps. This is called a "guessing game."

So, what I'm working on is identifying the type of paper and finding the historical precedence for it. Knowing where the paper was made and who made it is all-important. Also, why the printers chose that particular paper brand for postage stamps.

Now, mark your calendar; I'll be giving a talk at the APS Summer Convention in Columbus, OH on the subject of "US Banknote Papers--A Historical Perspective." Hope you can attend.

You do realize the vast majority of collectors are not scholars nor researchers? They do not live or operate in ivory towers and simply want to be able to ID the handful of stamps they have at hand. Please feel free to develop your own website targeting advanced collectors and we can link it when those who want to learn at that level.
Don

'51 Studebaker,

When I was a pre-teen, collecting stamps I found in the upstairs attic, I had to identify Washington-Franklin issues. I had to learn about rotary press and offset press. That's called the fundamentals of philately. It's no different with the large banknote issues. If collectors had the information they need, they could properly identify the issues on their own. See you in Columbus?

No, between the chemo and dialysis I am 'travel-challenged'. Additionally, I have to be mindful with impacting my family anymore than I have (about $3 million in medical costs over last three years). This is why I have concentrated on interfacing with the hobby online.
Don

Don, your assertion is certainly true, but it is also true that many published philatelic works are not reviewed for consistency or accuracy. Surviving records are incomplete, but order books and some correspondence related to 19th Century US Bank Note stamp production exist in the National Archives. The Feb 2017 United States Stamp Society Chronicle article "Hard-Paper Printings of the 1879 American Bank Note Company Stamp" by Ronald A. Burns is a good example of thorough scholarship. Unfortunately, philatelic lore passed from collector to collector by word of mouth or web site postings may be misinterpreted Scott catalog information or pure speculation.

Unfortunately, this site propagates both. I wish we could do better.

Clark,
Understood, and we do our best to walk the line between vetted information and opinion without censorship. I greatly respect and admire researchers who nudge our hobby forward. I am also painfully aware of the cultural barriers and resistance to new thinking of any kind. Our default behavior for today is do the same thing we did yesterday.

I also struggle with new reseaech that gets presented here such as AJ's work. At what point does research move from opinion to fact? Has it been vetted, has enough time passed so that others have had a chance to review and confirm? I am not 'plugged in' enough to the hobby to be able to make these decisions well.

A big part of this is APS and others coming into this century and distributing new information and research online so that it reaches more people.
Don

Disseminating correct information (at least to the state of the art) is a complicated issue for any chat forum.

Historically, books and trade journals which (should) get proper vetting, have been standard methods for updating the state of the art.

The issue with a chat forum, is that a forum can be thought of as a place where people can talk, or chat about stamps. It doesn't have to always be heavy-handed analytical discourse, but, instead, can be simply aesthetic, friendly, or informal discussions. This is by design, really. The free form kind of discussion that occurs here can occasionally drive discoveries or help people get to greater truths. You don't get that type of interaction with a book, for example.

So, the issue seems to be how to meld disclosure of legitimate vetted truths, with the above nature of a chat board.

Not an easy task. I keep thinking of a moderator button that generates something for a thread or post that says "content verified for your protection ()". I don't like that though, and I don't think its appropriate or even fully doable. Even a separate sub-forum for stuff that is 'really' true and accurate would probably die miserably as well. The spontaneity of how the forum is used is part of its strength, and also its weakness.

I think that the moderators on this board do a superb job overall, and I don't know that I'd want anything done differently, really. At some point, people probably have to develop skills to sift through the fluff for the good stuff.

tx,
In the engineering world that I come from, brainstorming is always important whether it is designing new solution or troubleshooting an existing problem. The art of leading a great brainstorming session is to encourage creative thinking but to keep the meeting on track. A delicate balance indeed.

I find that moderating this forum to be a similar balancing act, albeit even more challenging. In engineering, I had hired most of the people for their considerable experience and knowledge. Even the few 'newbies' in the brainstorming meetings worked very hard to keep up and come up to speed.

But this community has a much greatly diversity of people; non-collectors, beginning collectors, intermediate collectors, advanced collectors, researchers, historians, etc. This diversity can create friction at times even if it as simple as a language misunderstanding.

Another challenging aspect is the fact that some community members choose to remain anonymous. This can sometimes be problematic since it can be a license to be a jerk. And of course there is always a few trolls in any online forum who specialize in pushing the boundaries by creating drama.

I think one of things that could help is if posters were sometimes a bit less declarative in their opinions. Starting a post with 'In my opinion' or some other signal that an opinion follows would go a long way in avoiding disputes.
Don

Don,

Sorry to hear you are travel challenged. And, you let me know if I've crossed the line.

I'm very surprised by this forum. You know, I'm most interested in cancellations, and have a fair number of stamps and covers of interest. I personally would rather discuss such light-hearted topics.

What surprises me is the shear number of questions or problems on this forum that have to do with the fundamentals, they being, plate, color, and paper. It's remarkable really, the same questions come-up time and again, and there's a reason for that. The information available on various subjects (in my case, paper) is inadequate. The references too are inadequate or obsolete. When I see an article on 19th century stamp paper that doesn't have my book in the bibliography, gives me cause for concern.

All the low-hanging fruit in this hobby has been picked. We're now the generation who must deal with the difficult questions. In this regard I try to be plain-spoken. Paper is a big, really big, subject, consequently it's not always possible to elaborate, nor is this the form for academic discussion. And so, I limit my responses to the equivalent of sound-bytes. I try to get the point across, maybe show an example, then close my mouth.

In future, I'll try posting some interesting cancellations, and perhaps burnish my image a bit in light of all this dry conversation.

txstamp, really well said!

For me this site is a combination of stamp social club AND a springboard for learning. Threads here have lead me to, Carroll Chase, StampSmarter, USPCS, Charles DiComo, Winston Sinclair etc etc...
With the help of this site I believe I've accelerated my learning curve by more than a few years.

AJValente, please don't ever think that your contributions to what we discuss here are just "sound bytes."

While , as txstamp points out, the forum doesn't always have to be heavy-handed analytical discourse, that doesn't preclude that either.

I would disagree with you that this IS a very valid place for academic discussions, including something as difficult as 19th century paper.

I look forward to learning more about that topic, as you have time to contribute.

I have enjoyed reading the discussions on paper here. It is an area that I really know very little about, but am interested to learn.

Al - a very good friend of mine went by "KG". I believe that you knew him, as he mentioned you to me, numerous times many years back.

I think all of us would be interested to hear what you have to say about paper, and one challenge for you in this regard is to somehow communicate what you know, to us, in digestible chunks. Presenting complex ideas to a large diverse group is not necessarily simple. That does not mean it can't be done. Be prepared for a discourse as a result.

I just got out of a 3 hour brainstorming meeting at work, which actually accomplished its purpose, but it ran 2 hours and 55 minutes longer than it needed to. This was due to an unstoppable number of tangents taken. My attempts at moderating the discussion failed miserably, as this person simply needed to explore and discover for himself, what the truth was, of that discussion. People gain understanding at different rates. At least with a forum, one is not physically constrained in the same room with someone who is rambling on endlessly. You can get up and go to lunch.

There are a lot of highly intelligent and knowledgeable people on this board.