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Russia 1924 Postage Due 1k On 100r S.c. #j10 - Overprint Is The Underprint

 
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/08/2018   1:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add souldjer777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Good Afternoon,

I have a Russia 1924 Postage Due 1k on 100r S.C. #J10 where the overprint is actually the underprint - if there is such a thing. Just wondering if it has a catalog number and value please.



Thanks for the help
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 05/08/2018   2:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/08/2018   4:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add souldjer777 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you perf12. The overprint is UNDER the normal print - how is this normal?


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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 05/08/2018   4:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know exactly the story behind this oveprint;but obviously
the white parts are higher than the background due too the pressed
portion of the background during the printing;so your overprint
looks lightly canceled.I can see some traces of violet ink on the orange
background.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 05/08/2018   7:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a typical effect when water-based rubberstamp ink is largely repelled by oil-based printing ink but not by unprinted paper. As perf12 notes, there are still traces of the same violet color on top of the orange, not a darkened orange if there was an underprint.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/08/2018   9:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add souldjer777 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please show me another one like it as an example if you could. From my perspective it looks as though the ink is showing through from underneath the orange.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
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Posted 05/09/2018   10:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is a typical effect when water-based rubberstamp ink is largely repelled by oil-based printing ink but not by unprinted paper. As perf12 notes, there are still traces of the same violet color on top of the orange, not a darkened orange if there was an underprint.


Hi hy-brasil, I agree. You've summed this up very nicely.
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Nigel
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Posted 05/09/2018   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add souldjer777 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It would be in mint condition if it weren't for the two hinges on the back. Whoever invented hinges... just give me 5 minutes alone. All the gum is still there which makes it somewhat impossible to remove the stuck hinges. One of which cause a pretty serious thin. Not sure about the other writing on the back. I did not remove this stamp, it was loose in a book.



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Edited by souldjer777 - 05/09/2018 5:36 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/09/2018   5:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are different types of paper used on this stamp .From what is shown above ,your copy is the thin paper variety with a poorly done overprint .Scott catalog doesn't mention the thin paper ,only the pelure paper variety.
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France, Metropolitan
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Posted 05/09/2018   6:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/09/2018   7:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add souldjer777 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate everyones help. We will disagree and thats okay. Last post on this topic for me, thanks again everyone, stamp community is the best.
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Bedrock Of The Community
12555 Posts
Posted 05/09/2018   7:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Overprints exist to amend a stamp issue. You cannot amend something that does not yet exist. The chicken or the egg thing.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 05/09/2018   8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Please show me another one like it as an example if you could. From my perspective it looks as though the ink is showing through from underneath the orange.

I took some time to look for a good example, but then realized that, if you think the violet ink is under the orange AND you have the actual stamp in front of you, I could not convince you by showing just a scan of something else. So the following is for members that may be on the fence regarding your claim that an overprint is really an underprint here.

If the violet overprint is under the orange, how is it that the violet shows clearly as the same color OVER some orange sections?

How is it that so many places where violet and orange ink coincide that the violet fades to nearly nothing? Spots in just two letters are indicated. You might guess the orange ink is very opaque, but that would be incorrect. Hold a 100R orange thin paper stamp of this issue to the light, and light shines nearly equally well through the printed portions as well as the unprinted portions.

What would also be the reason for an underprint aside from a fake created by the P.O. or printers or Harry Potter-type magic? The issue is an existing stamp with a surcharge put on it. This is typically done when the P.O. is caught short of proper values. Having imprinted paper with the surcharge on hand before it was ever thought to be needed and then printing some random stamp design on top of it makes no sense.


Quote:
All the gum is still there which makes it somewhat impossible to remove the stuck hinges.

Actually, having all the gum present makes it very much easier to remove the hinges. Removing the hinges is not recommended here because of the thins already present.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 05/09/2018 8:23 pm
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 06/04/2018   07:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add souldjer777 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice...


Quote:
What would also be the reason for an underprint aside from a fake created by the P.O. or printers or Harry Potter-type magic?


Here's your Harry Potter-type magic:



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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6661 Posts
Posted 06/04/2018   08:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't get the inverted Jenny parallel. How does an inverted vignette have any similarity to an overprinted stamp?
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