Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read








Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Early Japanese Stamps: Would You Intentionally Buy A Forgery?

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 1,604Next Topic  
Valued Member

Japan
36 Posts
Posted 05/22/2018   8:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add JPR to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi all,

I'm interested in learning the differences between the early stamps (dragons, cherry blossoms, etc.) and their forgeries. I have some reference material to help with the research, but I'm wondering if it also makes sense to buy stamps online without knowing in advance if they are forgeries or not. Seems to me the best way to learn the differences between real ones and fake ones is to have both in front of me.

If that seems reasonable, what would you pay for an obvious forgery? Would you pay for a stamp that isn't clearly one or the other hoping that it's proven real in the end? Or are the chances of an unverified stamp being a real one similar to winning a lottery?

Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
United States
8414 Posts
Posted 05/22/2018   9:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JPR - There are a series of CD'S that are put out by one of the Japanese Philatelic Clubs that should be your starting point to learning the good from the bad .
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
507 Posts
Posted 05/22/2018   10:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dkabq8 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It would depend on the price -- YMMV. I would also invest the appropriate reference material (per floortrader's recommendation). Good luck.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 05/22/2018   11:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Exactly what reference material do you have? The ISJP reference is pretty comprehensive. Genuine Dragons nearly all have secret marks and the ones that don't can be identified by unique design characteristics. There are major references by Dr. Ichida on Dragons and Cherry Blossoms with plating photos of sheets to definitively identify those issues. The one real problem issue is the 1 sen blue with syllabic in that there are several that can be mistaken for forgeries. And there's even a book to plate and positively identify those.


Quote:
Seems to me the best way to learn the differences between real ones and fake ones is to have both in front of me. If that seems reasonable, what would you pay for an obvious forgery?

I do not think side by side comparison is needed nor necessarily helpful to most collectors. The production method for both is often the same. Walking around with references or learning them before you buy is. The vast majority aren't very good once you become familiar with them so I would only pay a dollar or two each. Whether you can buy a forgery depends on the seller; the fraudsters are looking for 10% of catalog or more in many cases, even for stated forgeries.


Quote:
Would you pay for a stamp that isn't clearly one or the other hoping that it's proven real in the end? Or are the chances of an unverified stamp being a real one similar to winning a lottery?

Japan forgeries outnumber genuine by a massive amount; if it's in the general stamp market, it's probably known beforehand whether a stamp is genuine or not. Guessing is a fool's game. Genuineness is established by matching stamps with those in photos of full sheets or reconstructed sheets (plating). I may be wrong about the 1 sen blue with syllabic but I believe there is a photograph of everything in this era. So basically there are no "if"s for Japanese stamps if you have the reference material or submit it to an expert service that does.





Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3744 Posts
Posted 05/23/2018   08:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Forgeries are very obvious in the dragon stamps if one pays careful attention to details.Most sellers ask too much for forgeries anyway.Finding a huge collection of
old Japanese stamps cheap is mission impossible today.
This is a nice link;maybe you have it.The site is nice but the pics are too small.
Typical error when you want too show stamps.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand-Renge/1164/
Here is a nice stamp on e bay.It looks real too me.Just spending money with the
right seller is the most difficult part I think.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-s...AOSwaB5XpKjc


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8414 Posts
Posted 05/23/2018   1:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't understand how you can be a expert and know this material without spending hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars getting a education and building your references library. The area of DRAGONS ,CHERRY BLOSSOMS and KOBAN forgeries is a life study .
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8414 Posts
Posted 05/23/2018   1:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Where to start ,start by buying the CD's mentioned above from the Japanese Society ,then download and print all the above websites into hard copies . Buying the books would be needed for your library .

The first purchases would be the 1961 issued souvenir sheets from the Postal Ministry ,there are ten different sheets of the Dragon issue . Then go after the "numbered forgeries" these are DRAGON issues "stamps made after WWII by a forger.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3744 Posts
Posted 05/23/2018   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with floortrader;study & study
In fact there was a forgery lot sold and at a cheap price at that...
https://stampauctionnetwork.com/v/v70230.cfm
________________________________________________
Souvenir Card 1961 - 1963 Mail 90th Anniversary
http://marumatestore.com/?pid=109059957
Nice selection of Dragon stamps in his store.
http://marumatestore.com/?mode=cate...2175&csid=35

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by perf12 - 05/24/2018 5:29 pm
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3744 Posts
Posted 05/24/2018   6:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by perf12 - 05/24/2018 6:07 pm
Valued Member
Japan
36 Posts
Posted 06/05/2018   09:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JPR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have a couple of the CDs which, I suppose, is a good start.

I can see already, as Floortrader says, that this could be the beginning of a lifetime of study. Anyway, I still see some value in buying a dragon (for way, way, WAY less than catalog value), assuming from the start that it is a fake, and then examining it to support or negate my hypothesis. Seems to me that if I had enough of that kind of practice then I would be ready to make a wise decision when I saw one on sale somewhere for a much larger price.

(I've got a bunch more questions about the dragons, etc., but I guess I should start new threads for those...)
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 1,604Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Go to Top of Page

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2026 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.2 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05