A Little Help Interpreting Walsh Nssc Info On 1857 3-D

I recently purchased what was advertised as a Newfoundland 1857 3d stamp and I'm trying to verify it is not the 1861 issue. I'm pretty much hopeless at identifying the cross-wire mesh so I'm looking for any and all secondary indications.

I need some help interpreting some information on page 1 of the Walsh 2018 Newfoundland Specialized Stamp Catalogue. In discussing the 1857 3d issue it notes the presence of green ink flakes and shows this illustration:

Does anyone know the cause of the flakes and/or why they are not present on the 1861 issue?

A second question revolves around this illustration also on page 1:

Does anyone know what UL3 from pr and LL3 from pr means? I would guess UL is Upper Left and LL is Lower Left but what is the context?

Thanks,
Terry

tlmcca...Can you post a picture of your stamp.

Robert

Robert,

I'll post the whole series that I've gathered.

My #3 front:

My #3 back (optimized for upload):

My #11A front:

My #11A back (optimized for upload):

The scans of the backs were done at 1200 DPI for my attempt at identifying the cross-wire mesh paper.

Thanks,
Terry

I believe they represent Left hand 3 from the lower left stamp of the pair and the Left hand 3 from the upper left stamp of the pair.

I believe the stamps were printing with the bottoms (long edge) were facing each other.


Trodent

tlmcca..Here are a couple of links for forgery stamps..Good info.

Robert
http://stampforgeries.com/forged-st...1862-page-1/

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-st...ewfoundland/

http://stampforgeries.com/forged-st...d-1880-1947/

Robert,

Thanks for the links. stampforgeries.ca/canada/newfoundland/ was especially helpful in assuring what I have does not appear to be a forgery. Unfortunately, I'm still no further along in determining the #3 or #11A question.

I spoke to a friend today who has a couple of lab quality binocular microscopes and will be visiting him sometime soon to see if high magnification of the back with varying light helps to discern the mesh.

I also saw on page 4 of Walsh that UV longwave 340 nm light may show a color difference between #3 and #11A. I'll have to see about finding such a lamp at a reasonable price.

My last resort is to send the stamp off for expertizing.

Terry

Yes Terry, They look like you have identified them. (but I am no expert)

I find my number NFLD #3 is more of a yellowish green than NFLD #11
and the paper on the NFLD #11 is whiter.

the other thing I have noticed on the NFLD #3, the top numeral 3 is in a round circle in a square box. the inside corners of the box show more white than the #11. maybe is just my copies, but I am curious. Can you upload a good copy of the top numeral 3 box from both stamps

I will upload my copies tomorrow.

Trodent

Trodent,

Thank you for your interest, here are the top corners:


Terry

Hey Terry here are my 2 copies ,

#3 LEFT STAMP 11Ai RIGHT STAMP


and you can see the left stamp is more "yellowish" than the right

This is no means the best way to identify these 2 stamps.

Trodent

ps. I am hoping some other collectors can post there NFLD #3 and #11 stamps

Here is my backing on the
NFLD #3 paper seems more uniform and yellowish




NFLD #11Ai (Watermarked) paper seems more see through and whitish


Trodent

Trodent,

Again, thanks for your interest and help.

I checked the images of the #3s and #11As on The Philatelic Foundation certificate database and didn't see any other examples of the ink condition you mention so it is probably just a case of incomplete inking.

I also saw quite a lot of variability in the tone of the paper in those examples; #3s that look quite white and #11As that look a bit yellow. I've always had problems with trying to discern slight color differences when dealing with paper and ink which has been exposed to the elements for more than 160 years.

Regarding your scans of the stamps' backs, can you see the indications of mesh paper? I was pleased to see similar "green ink flakes" on yours as on mine which is one indication of the #3.

A final observation: The back of your #3 appears to have some sort of notation in the lower left corner that looks like "W. O. G." Any idea what that is?

Terry

Here is an 11a block which shows the speckling well. Is from the Siegel Database.

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....ubmit=Search

rodgcam,

Please excuse my ignorance but can you expound upon the speckling you reference? Is this a characteristic of the #11A not seen in #3?. I'm grasping at anything that distinguishes these guys.

Terry

I sent an email to Chris Mcfetridge who runs the Brixton-Chrome store on ebay and has written a terrific series of blogs on canadianphilately.blogspot.com seeking his opinion. Here is his response:


So, it looks like I over paid for a nice #11A rather than getting a nice #3 at a great price. Such is life.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on the discussion.

Terry

To anyone interested I had the stamp certified by VGG and it came back today as authentic.

Terry