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An Unlisted Double Transfer On The Trenton Match Stamp.

 
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Valued Member
United States
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Posted 08/30/2018   8:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add JoNo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I noticed blue spots present in the lettering of a stamp in an upper right vertical block of six of the Trenton Match Co. The markings were noted on plate position #44. Upon closer examination of the stamp the left frame line at the lower left was doubled inside the left stamp frame lines. Also, there was another portion of the frame line noted at the top left of the "O" of "ONE" confirming this stamp has a double transfer. This variety not listed in Scott's Catalogue
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Posted 08/30/2018   9:34 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think I would call it a DT. Plate flaws or damage may be a better explanation.
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Posted 08/30/2018   9:59 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What's going on in the letters of TRENTON? Are those consistent in the design, inking anomalies, or DT?
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1738 Posts
Posted 08/30/2018   10:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Personally, to me a "double transfer" is shorthand for "a partial (or more) double transfer of the original design elements."

In other words, a vertical line would have another vertical line right next to it but slightly offset, or any other design element would be "doubled" to some degree, one direction or another.

A few random dots of ink color and/or lines here and there aren't double transfers.

They're more like "nineteenth century inking issues during a Civil War."

Jim
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 08/30/2018   11:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are unlisted double transfers on m&m's however. I have a major DT on RS251, a pair of RS294, one with a major DT and one with a (very) minor DT, and RU15 with a DT, all unlisted. There are probably others still waiting to be found.
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Rest in Peace
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Posted 08/30/2018   11:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add James Drummond to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Well, sure, of course there are other double transfers out there.

But do any that you have, have random lines and dots of ink color here and there?

Or do they have some "doubling" of a design element?

Jim
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Posted 08/30/2018   11:42 pm  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But do any that you have, have random lines and dots of ink color here and there?


Without being able to see a higher-resolution image, they could just be random inking anomalies, hence my asking the question.

Some DTs at first glance can look like random dots, e.g., some of the R53 DTs.

Also, don't forget about foreign entries, which can bear no resemblance to features on the stamp they're found on. I'm not saying that's the case here, but just because it doesn't look like doubling of a feature on the stamp doesn't mean it's not a legitimate plate variety.
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Posted 08/31/2018   03:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JoNo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I originally came to the same conclusion as most of you did until I saw the straight lines to the right of the left frame lines into the design which have to be a double transfer in itself and it came from a large study group from the Joyce collection.
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Posted 08/31/2018   04:54 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I now agree that it is a DT. I wouldn't call the doubled frame lines the best evidence however. The most convincing evidence is a doubling of the right side of the plows. The horses mane, among other features, is also doubled quite well.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10633 Posts
Posted 08/31/2018   07:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree about the plows. And FYI-two of the three foreign entries of the six cent state dept. are largely composed of dots in letters.
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United States
86 Posts
Posted 08/31/2018   08:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sideshowbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Assuming it is a DT, shouldn't it show up on a full sheet of the stamps somewhere? If so, Eric Jackson has a full sheet that could be checked for it. I believe he even has it with him at Balpex this weekend if anyone is attending.
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10633 Posts
Posted 08/31/2018   10:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not necessarily, but it is certainly worth checking. Although it was only issued on watermarked paper, (which means only the BEP printed it), the plate may or may not have had positions re-entered during it's lifetime. There were approximately 36,667 sheets printed, so there is no way to be sure except to check that sheet.
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Posted 09/01/2018   12:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kbt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've been struggling with what is a DT as I've been looking through my M&Ms. I expanded my search to most of them, not just the DTs noted by Scott. It has been fun looking! Below are two scans of possible uncatalogued DTs.

The first one is a RO19b and certainly looks like a DT as there is a doubling of the inside border line on the left:


This one I am not as sure. It is a RO114 and whole lower half is somewhat "fuzzy". What looks the most to me like a DT is the "E" in "REV":


Am I 1-for-2?... 0-2?
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6434 Posts
Posted 09/01/2018   07:58 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I know less than nothing about M&Ms, but I'm thinking DT on the first and kiss print on the second; there's faint doubling across virtually all elements uniformly in a westerly direction.
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United States
86 Posts
Posted 09/01/2018   12:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sideshowbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The sheet that Eric has shows the same double transfer in the same position. It definitely looks to be a double transfer.
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