Purchasing Collections And Discount Of Catalog Value

First, a little background.

When I started collecting U.S. stamps 40+ years ago, I purchased from a variety of sources--brick and mortar store, philatelic window at large city post office, and some mail order. I acquired year sets and misc. stamps primarily working backwards, filling up holes in the collection and slowly expanding the size of my mint collection. I acquired a few older used or hinged stamps along the way.

I picked up a German stamp collection consisting of probably 2,000 mostly hinged stamps about 30 years ago. That was my first introduction to buying a larger collection. Then about 25 years ago I purchased a decent sized U.S. collection (at least decent size to me) all mint, mostly no hinge for about $3,500. It included some 19th Century and most of the stamps after Scott 537. The catalog value at the time was in excess of $13,500.

I suspect some people may not prefer to acquire larger collections like this that were put together by someone else since this may take some of the "fun" out of searching for and acquiring particular stamps and smaller lots. For me, I felt like it took my collection "to the next level." There was still a lot of enjoyable effort to transfer the stamps to my own album and cataloging and accounting for duplicates, etc.

Since that time, I have continued to seek individual stamps and small lots to slowly fill in holes and/or different varieties. I've replaced a few of the lesser desirable stamps that came from the large purchased collection. But there are still obviously many areas of stamps not yet acquired.

To again bring my collection to an even more "respectable" level, I've been thinking about looking for and acquiring another U.S. collection to incorporate into my own collection (while hopefully avoiding too many duplicates). This would mean a collection with primarily 19th century and turn of the century stamps. Depending on the size of the collection, I expect the price may exceed $7,500--perhaps $10,000 or more.

Or maybe I'll acquire a large collection of another country as a way of expanding my interests and which will form the beginning or foundation of a new collection for me.

Which brings me to my questions.

Do many people acquire collections like this? In my reading on this forum, I don't recall anyone specifically mentioning this or going into detail about this. I assume people buy large collections all the time or otherwise such collections wouldn't be offered. I simply have not read about other people's experiences in doing this.

I'm curious also about the "completeness" of some of these larger collections. Do dealers routinely cull or remove especially desirable stamps from the collection before offering the collection for sale? I suppose if this is the case, then naturally it's reflected in the price, so it all works out in the end. The offering description would also disclose this.

Who are the more well-known or better dealers who offer such collections? I've seen the ads of Dr. Robert Friedman and he certainly offers collections. Who are the other dealers? From what I've read on this forum, Dr. Friedman seems to have an excellent reputation.

Which brings me to an important question--pricing. I am not nearly as experienced as most of the others on this forum and I may be grossly mistaken, but it seems to me that some/many--even most--of the larger collections sell at significant discounts to catalog value. Easily less than 20% of CV in many cases. My local brick and mortar store just informed me that he recently sold a German collection for less than 10% of CV to another dealer since he was unable to otherwise sell the collection. These collection sales/offerings all appear to be be priced at deep discounts of CV--larger discounts as compared to buying individual stamps or smaller lots.

Is this sort of pricing common with collections? If so, why? Is it because the collection may contain many more common stamps which are not given much "retail" value and represents even deeper discounts to CV? But if the collection is priced higher (for instance, easily in excess of $10,000), might one expect the collection to include more higher-value stamps and fewer common stamps? A close inspection or review of the lot description would of course answer this. Or is it because when dealers buy larger collections for resale, they are able to pay so little and to move the collection, the buyer benefits with a lower price relative to CV.

I suppose my ultimate question--which sums up the above several questions--is whether there are disadvantages or pitfalls or mistakes in going after a larger collection at the price range I am suggesting?

Sorry for the length of this post!

Stamp Auction Network (SAN) is, in my opinion, the hands down best place for these types of lots. You can research prices realized and see view vast amounts of every type of collection imaginable over a large period of time and from all of the World's auction houses. I have been buying collections and large lots for many years on SAN and the breadth and scope of material is unmatched.

As far as percentage of cv goes like everything it depends upon the market for that area at any given time and whether or not another person wants it as badly as myself. On average I probably pay between 10 and 20 percent for good single country collections. My real focus is large WW lots that are disorganized and for those when all is said and done I oftentimes end up having paid between 3 and 10 percent.

As far as quality goes, no matter whether you purchase a collection at auction or from a dealer they are maximizing return and a VF MNH $5 Columbian with a certificate for example is going to be removed and sold separately.

The main point for me in buying at auction is that I have never seen much sense in buying from a dealer that purchased it at an auction in the first place and simply elevated the price on what I could directly bid on/purchase myself.

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/auctions.cfm

I much prefer to buy single country collections, although I'm now concentrating on a smaller field. Picking up single stamps doesn't really give the same level of fun. I'd reckon on about 10% of Gibbons CV, as do most auctioneers, recognising that, in fact, the real cost is focused on a few stamps in the collection. One thing to consider is whether to jump in at the top end, with the sort of high value collection you describe, or to work up gradually. The latter approach has the benefit of not mopping up too much of your cash if you ultimately decide that Holland, Norway, Italy etc aren't for you.

Thank you, rogdcam, for your quick response and referring me to Stamp Auction Network (SAN). I'm excited to explore that website and research more about prices realized for large collections. SAN is not something that I've considered in the past nor is it familiar to me, though I've seen it mentioned enough times on this forum.

You've already confirmed what I had concluded--that 10 to 20 percent of CV for single country collections is not unreasonable.

I also agree with your main point--which is to bid directly and try to buy at auction rather than from a dealer who may have purchased from the same auction in the first place, recognizing of course, that some offerings from dealers may not have been acquired at auction.

Your response GeoffHa is also instructive--and something which I suspected--that the real cost or price of a collection may be driven primarily by only a few higher-priced stamps contained in the offering. This may not be as true with a very large collection containing hundreds of stamps--but obviously true with smaller collections.

Jimbo

I started bidding on SAN about a year ago and have picked up some great material. I haven't yet bid on a large lot but, co-incidentally, I was looking at some earlier today and this thread is encouraging me to have a closer look.

Condition is a MAJOR factor (both centering and faults/alterations) and there is no simple % answer that can be given without seeing the collection in question.. Also you can not take a % for a German collection and apply it to a US collection.

Lots of questions that have a lot of different answers. The best answer is just see what others are doing and ask questions and expect no final right answer .

Most stamp collectors change what they collect over time or get distracted and start new interest .

Purchasing worldwide collections has a limit ,somewhere after purchasing 3 or 4 collections ,most every collection after that is full of duplicates of what you already have .

The general rule is any collection you buy HAS ALREADY BEEN PICKED OVER .The question is what standard did they use ,some dealers remove stuff that catalogs over 10 dollars each, there are stamp auction firms that remove stamps worth more than 50 dollars apiece .The firm I will be buying from this month will remove items over $100.00 and sometimes items $200.00 and list them seperately .

If your going to collect worldwide set a limit to what your going to spend per country ,I started with a rule of buying a one dollar packet for each country ,that worked well for me for many years thru high school .Sometimes I got 2 or 3 stamps from a country and other times I got 50 to 100 stamps per country . Years later that number increased to $25.00-$50.00 and that worked well .
Later once I started to attend stamp auctions that whole idea got trashed with my purchases of much bigger collections .
Today I study and hunt for specialized collections that you rarely see sold and adding those to my worldwide collection . What I want and enjoy added to my collection is not the high value flashy stamps but the stuff you just don't find in worldwide collections .

Jimbo: welcome to the Forum. So you know, Floortrader is one of the resident experts around here regarding buying country collections in the US.

Some other points. You are correct about Friedman. I've bought a number of collections from him over the years and have not been disappointed.

I've not been to Stamp Auction Network. But, with a number of companies present, it may seem overwhelming. You might visit the web site of Daniel F. Kelleher as they have a collections sale, from just one owner, coming up September 27. I'm drooling over the Portuguese and Kenya/Uganda material contained within; two of my four specialty areas. You can also research past auctions to get an idea of what stuff is bringing these days. Look for their Collections sales.

If this link doesn't work, try just a general google inquiry: www.kelleherauctions.com

Concur on Kelleher. They are also good, at least for me, on the selling end. They just sold a lot of material for me and were excellent about accomodating me after I missed the deadline.

Jimbo, these are good questions that after twenty years, answers for me at least are still evolving. I believe that looking at and evaluating as many different collections as I can is a good thing to do over the long term. When you go to auctions or shows, spend the time you can going through collections, as many as possible. Buy what looks good to you, based on paying for the Best condition you can afford. Paying good money for poor condition stamps is not rewarding.
Floortrader has a good point about looking for the material you do not often see. This is best understood by looking at as many collections as you can. You will soon develop a sense of what is unusual, or what might indicate a collector put something extra into his collection. Often, the more elusive stamps are not the expensive ones. In one example, I have viewed many, many French colony collections, but few of them ever come with the Colonial Arts souvenir sheets. These are not very expensive, $10-20, but they do not appear in collections as often as many other stamps of the same price range. I suppose, as Floortrader points out, they may have been picked out, but then again, other more valuable stamps are left in, so, hard to say.

Another thing to remember is that there is always more material out there. Stay patient and don't worry too much about whether your price range, whatever it may be, might lead to missed opportunities.

This might sound odd, but after a few years, I sat down one night and typed out a note to myself about how to evaluate collections, and sort of a collecting philosophy for myself. It helped me think ahead, focus, use my time at shows more constructively, to remember lessons learned, etc.
Anyhow, your questions are great ones, and I am having a lot of fun trying to answer them for myself!!


Very good questions

Elusive, as Boxcar1954 puts it? Indeed! To use his example, I sold my France and colonies collections at auction early this year (except for St. Pierre/Miquelon, which I retained for my North America album). It was fairly extensive, with a rough Scott catalog of $12,500. I didn't have a single one of the Colonial Arts souvenir sheets.

Is this the 1937 miniature sheet? They've certainly turned up in quite often in collections I've bought - and they don't fetch much when you sell your duplicates!

So THAT is where they all went! (smile).

Yes, had to fight my way through a pile of them just to reach the keyboard. Now what I usually find missing are the 1939 150th anniversary of the French revolution stamps ...

Another good candidate. The Scott catalog now includes a nifty summary of the Common Designs in the front, and enumerates the number series and total value of each such Common Design. The Colonial Arts come in at 154 stamps in 24 countries for US$614. The Bastille set also 24 countries, 128 stamps at US$1,572. But, anyhow, analysis can't substitute for how great looking these stamps are, especially the sheets.

Jimbo's question also makes me think about how I might select when to 'jump in' to a country I may not have much of, whether to go with a collection that is available or to wait. Tell tale indicators such as these sets help tip the balance.