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New Zealand Stamp New Scan

 
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Valued Member

90 Posts
Posted 10/29/2018   9:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add doodah12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi,
Here's a scan I took with my daughter's iPhone, I hope it's an improvement.
I've also included a closeup of one of the forgeries, which doesn't look like what's on my stamp.
Just to the right of the E in postage and just above the 2nd N in PENNY, there's ovals that go up in an arc.
On the forgeries, they're totally misshapen, not symmetrical, and not even oval.
But on mine, they match the reprint or the genuine.
And also the Y in PENNY matches the Y in the reprint. Or maybe I just need better glasses, lol.



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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 10/29/2018   11:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not the so-called Jeffryes forgery, shown here a little better:
http://www.andrewsnzstamps.com/nz-f...aired-stamps
What's throwing off the viewer are the weird-looking portrait eyes, which I believe is just due to plate wear.
Next to SG#35 here
http://stampforgeries.com/forged-st...new-zealand/
is a reprint, from a worn plate, with similar eyes. In any case, the originals are engraved, the forgeries are not (litho, I think). The clue is the sharpness of the thin engraved lines (use a magnifier) even when the design is worn. And there are some tremendously worn plates that were used to print Chalon Heads.

Forget the idea of "reprint". The color is similar, but anyone taking an imperf reprint, perfing it badly and adding a rather smudgy cancel would be an idiot.

Save your money for a certificate for this. Check the APS site and see what certificates cost. Compare with catalog values. This is probably SCV $30 or so. Ah, but there's a catch to that. The Scott prices are for sound perfed examples with margins clear of the design, very difficult for these. With margins cutting, the price drops tremendously. Heavy cancels, tiny faults drop the price even more. Typical off-center Chalon Head collections with varying degrees of faults sell for a few per cent of CV. Similarly for imperfs, those big CVs are for 4-margin stamps with large margins for the issue. Even stamps with almost 4 margins showing are a fairly low percentage of CV.

Now if you have a bunch of Chalon Heads and you want to identify them, separate imperf from perf, then separate each of those groups by watermark. Then go through Scott or whatever catalog starting from the beginning of New Zealand and check for characteristics of each issue, one by one. There are really no shortcuts until you have learned the issue better. You can bring them here for ID but don't show 50 of them at once and ask for identification.


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France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 10/30/2018   10:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Edited by perf12 - 10/30/2018 2:39 pm
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United States
3224 Posts
Posted 10/30/2018   3:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
perf12, kindly show me or reference an engraved forgery of the 1d orange. It makes sense for a forger to put in the time and work for a very expensive stamp like a Chalon Head shilling value. Since this is a handmade forgery, there can be no realistic correlation with a 1d forgery without seeing the latter.

Further, doodah's original image:
https://goscf.com/t/64276
definitely shows some plate wear in the background along with wear on the head itself. From what I can tell, it's not bad engraving. The 1/-, while a somewhat light engraving in places in the body and head, has full "engine turning" behind the head. That's certainly something one would expect a forger to do, trying to create the best-looking version of a stamp.

And then the forger would perf it badly and add a rather heavy cancel to make it one of the cheapest/commonest Chalon Heads possible, worth only a few dollars today? This makes no sense to me; please explain.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 10/30/2018 3:47 pm
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Posted 10/30/2018   5:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hy-brasil:I agree. I would put it then as 1864 SG: 111.
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90 Posts
Posted 10/30/2018   5:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add doodah12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What would the corresponding catalog number be in Scott?
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United States
3224 Posts
Posted 10/30/2018   8:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott #31. Gibbons has shades that Scott does not, Gibbons has 2 printings as major listings that Scott does not. Gibbons #111 gauges perf 12 1/2 horizontally (and is perf 12 1/2 to 13 vertically, strangely enough); if perf 13 horizontally, that is a better, different stamp by Gibbons. Please do check. I believe perf12 has the color absolutely correct with the Gibbons color for Gibbons #111 being pale orange-vermilion, rather than the very much brighter "true" orange of Gibbons #112/Scott #31a.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 10/30/2018 8:25 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 10/30/2018   8:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Fascinating stuff.
Many thanks for those Otago Pmks P12.

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90 Posts
Posted 10/30/2018   8:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add doodah12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for everyone's help!
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