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Is This A U59 Dye Variety?

 
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Pillar Of The Community

Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 10/31/2018   12:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add quigngt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have checked numerous sites including here on stamp community and conclude that this is a U59 cover. What I have not found is whether or not this is a U59 dye variety or not.

Is the first image a U59 dye variety? All of the letters "S" are shorter and the space between "HR" of "THREE" is wider than in the second image below.


This second image is copied from a previous forum post. This image matches all the U59 I located on the internet.
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Pillar Of The Community
6326 Posts
Posted 10/31/2018   12:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Every die is a "variety". The "Catalog of the 19th Century Stamped Envelopes and Wrappers of the United States" published by the United Postal Stationery Society details 79 dies for this envelope in the 2nd edition, 2001, but there is a 2012 edition now available. You illustrate 2 of them.
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Edited by John Becker - 10/31/2018 12:19 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 10/31/2018   2:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi John, thanks for your reply, especially the part about 79 dies. I don't know much about postal stationary, re: varieties. Are you saying that the original design of U59 is not known? It would then make sense that every die a variety. But I am not sure I am understanding you correctly? Would it be somewhat possible to understand dies as a loose equivalents to a stamp's plate number? I've never heard it expressed this way, so I am only trying to grasp this " Every die is a variety." concept. What I do know is that stamps frequently are given a "v" following the Scott number. This is what I was referring to with the term "variety". If I am using incorrect postal stationary terminology, I'd like to learn the correct terminology.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
599 Posts
Posted 11/01/2018   09:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jobi01 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Between the limitations of metal technology and ink technology, early postal stationery dies had relatively short lives. Die varieties detailed in various sources are those that have been identified by students of that issue.

Early dies were manufactured in-house by impressing the design onto soft steel. Imperfections were corrected by hand. Then that steel die was hardened (and not always very well). Many early inks were quite abrasive as the source of the color frequently was ground up metals or ores. Worn dies were either replaced or recut.

The Scott catalog assigns major catalog numbers to the generic die design. Scott makes no attempt to deal with die varieties, paper varieties (other than color), knife varieties, color varieties all of which are left to the specialized catalogs (currently published by the United Postal Stationery Society).
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Bill Lehr
US Postal Stationery Specialist
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3155 Posts
Posted 11/01/2018   11:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Scott makes no attempt to deal with die varieties, paper varieties (other than color), knife varieties, color varieties all of which are left to the specialized catalogs (currently published by the United Postal Stationery Society).

Just visited their website. Which of their many publications would cover the varieties as discussed above? The United States 19th Century Envelope Catalog?

http://www.upss.org/index.php
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Pillar Of The Community
Guatemala
1500 Posts
Posted 11/01/2018   12:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add quigngt to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks jobi01, I had visited the UPSS site. Since stationary is not a collecting priority, I'll have to pass on getting ID help from them. I can't justify the price of the publications (which I see as quite reasonable) with the very limited collecting interests I have.

Your information on the manufacturing is very helpful in understanding the varieties and why there are so many.
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Pillar Of The Community
621 Posts
Posted 11/01/2018   4:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ThomasGalloway to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Which of their many publications would cover the varieties as discussed above? The United States 19th Century Envelope Catalog?"

Yes. And a new version is due shortly.
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