Scott 502 Counterfeit Perf

Hi

Received this from PF in response to a submission. My question for the forum pertains to the method someone would use to create counterfeit perfs on a stamp. Is it done by a machine? I'd shown this stamp to a couple of dealers and they didn't recognize the perfs as counterfeit. The perfs look real. As far as fake perfs go is this one exceptional or par for the course?

Actually they are pretty obvious. Some dealers are not good at recognizing fake perfs.

The bottom perfs 'wander' (compared to bottom frame line), not sure how they would have not seen this. Even at arm's length the bottom perfs look suspect to my hobbyists old eyes.
Don

aren't wandering perfs just typical for those perf 10 at one side issue?
for me it's difficult to see that those perforation holes are fake from this image and not the stamp in my hand. What would tell it to me?

It's not just that they wander, they clearly would not gauge. And some are different sizes, larger or smaller.

Look at how few holes there are on the bottom as compared to the top.

thank you, yes the hole size is a good hint.
the gauge is a difficult thing to me as those stamps are sometimes even partly 10 and partly perf 11 at the bottom.
but the number of holes is of course more at the top (perf 11) than at the bottom (perf 10)?

I saw nothing amiss when using the perf gauge for the bottom. I also tried matching the size of the stamp with others of the 502 variety. My thinking was if something had been done to this stamp the overall size of it from top to bottom would be smaller than others of the same variety. Stamps are perf'd by machine and are typically uniform in size within the same type? I've seen Jumbo Margins on stamps and perhaps this stamp had them giving the deviant who altered the stamp room to work.


I think this may be a better image of the counterfeit perfs






Does anyone know how a counterfeit perf is created on a stamp? Is a machine used?

Stamps are and have been perfed different ways. Washington-Franklins were basically perfed by wheels with metal pins all mounted on a rod, powered. There is slight play between the wheels so that stamps will be different sizes. Otherwise, how could jumbos and misperfs exist? Overly tiny stamps were normally caught by inspection but also probably thrown away by collectors.

The forger's tool is not a powered machine. It's a metal bar or strip with metal pins and a matching strip of holes. A multiple hole punch, if you will. There was also a guy (caught) who reperfed stamps apparently convincingly using a hobby knife, a good eye and a steady hand. This info alone will not help you detect all reperfs.

It looks like the forger of yours dealt with damage (tear) at the leftmost bottom corner by deepening the reperf hole. He also made the hole wider in the process.

hy-brasil

Thank you. Whoever did it had to have the hands of a Surgeon. With the naked eye details like you point out are barely noticeable. Enlarged scans help bring details like that to light. A PF Certificate provides an opinion but not the basis for the opinion leaving the recipient with more questions than answers. I have not yet developed the level of expertise needed to detect forgeries like this. Participating in this forum will definitely sharpen my eye.

Why on Earth does the PF put the "submitted" catalog number on their certs even when they are incorrect? They do it even for legitimate stamps where the submitter just misidentified the stamp.

All stamps are listed based on what they are submitted as. Then they wind up listed as what they actually are, whether it is the same or different.

Remember, when the stamp is first submitted it has to go into the system. The only way to do so is to put it in as what it is submitted as. No one has looked at it yet, so no one knows what it is until they do.

as gettinold and perhaps some others who read this thread I still don't know how to tell the perforation as fake with such a low resolution image.

for the perf 10 at one side issue, it's quite typical to find:
- wandering perfs
- low quality perforation
- damaged perfs because of previous part-blind perfs
- irregular gauge

the only thing I understood so far is the size of the holes. Is this the only deciding factor to see that those perforation is fake? (from the scan above)

quite often we see reperforated stamps or fakes here at SCF and often people with more knowledge than me say it's obvious that it's not genuine, but normally we don't learn why exactly.

According to Siegel "Scott 502e is not known in unused condition".

https://siegelauctions.com/display_...s.php?id=199