Recommendation For New Computer : Parameters.

Buying a PC and not a Mac!!!!!!!! Amazing in this day and age of identity theft, viruses, spams and scams.

Mac vs Windows is a debate that often ends badly. My position is that both operating systems and platforms are very good. There is no question that An Apple product is superior to a cheap Windows computer; but that is not a fair comparison. The biggest difference is that Apple tightly controls that platform and quality. Anyone can build a crap computer and install Windows on it; this is another reason I recommend a quality computer like Dell.

The take-away from this thread...you get what you pay for.
Don

Hi Don

I agree with you in most cases, which I assume refer to commercially available computers. I do not agree in buying a $1000, or more, computer if one only surfs the internet, looks at their mail and maybe uses an Office application.

However, there is a need for $1000+ computers. For instance, my cousin's son is studying architecture and he needs quality graphics; his computer was custom built and cost $2000+. Commercially available graphics capable computers cost way more than that.

I do believe that if one wants a computer, tailored for one's use, I am totally with having a computer custom built. The parts are of a higher quality and the cost is usually less than a commercial computer. My computer was inexpensive as the computer was not picked up (the original price was way more). This assumes that there is a reliable shop in one's vicinity.

The last computer was purchased from the same shop, cost the same, was refurbished and lasted for 5 years before the hard drive died (I am thinking of reviving it, hard drives are relatively cheap).

You mentioned 6 USB ports. I add the comment that 2 of those ports be in the front of the computer. I have seen a computer where there were no front USB ports (it was not a server). There are USB hubs that expand a single USB port to multiple ports. If one is going to have that many devices, then the power capability should be examined to insure that the devices can be accommodated.

As an MSEE and having worked with chips, I am still not warm and fuzzy with Solid State Drives, or USB sticks, for long term storage. I prefer storage (backups) on DVD-R/W. I did consider 2 hard drives and RAID technology, but that scenario was 1 failure point to 2 failure points.

What are your thoughts on custom computers? Also, I might have asked once before, what is your background?

As an aside: My Floating ToolBar application is 50% completed. There is a Form for defining the ToolBar controls and a Macro to build the ToolBar. The application is designed as a template. That way one can just attach the template to the document. Half my time is in finding the new VBA language updates and confusion between .NET and VBA.

Jerry B

Hi Jerry,

My background is 25 years as VP of Engineering and owner/partner at several technology companies that designed, developed and manufactured electronic devices. In Engineering I had a full staff of electrical engineers, industrial design engineers, and software engineers. During my career, we designed well over 50 different products including laser scanners, various controllers, kiosks and other electronics. Software experience ranged from custom embedded firmware, to our own custom BIOS, to our own real-time embedded operating systems, and higher level applications.

I also filled in as VP of Manufacturing for a few years and have an extensive QA background. On the manufacturing floor we had several PCB surface mount and through hole assembly lines. We also did a significant amount of device assembly.

Since falling ill 6 years ago, I now work from home as VP of Engineering at an R&D company that is researching fall prevent in cognitively impaired adults. We have several patents on our fall prevent software and our approach is backed by a solid 12 years of evidence based research. Our research is promising enough to have attract two multi-million dollar NIH grants.

When you run and MTBF calculation on ANY computer the hard drive stands out like a sore thumb. Non-SSD hard drives are the weakest link in any computer (since they are the last and only mechanical device in the box); SSD drives addresses this issue. I have purchased literality thousands of hard drives (mostly for inclusion for manufactured devices) and have a level of intimacy with their MTBF, manufacturing, and short-comings that I wish I did not have. I am sure that I spent more time dealing with hard drives any other component by a factor of 10; at any time we had hundreds sitting as returns from the field and awaiting RMAs back to Seagate or Western Digital. SSD drives are far superior in every single aspect.

Custom computers are fine as long as you spend money on the components and have some experience. It takes a fair amount of knowledge; not unlike building a good stamp collection. Assembling a computer without experience and buying random, cheap online computer components is equivalent to an inexperienced hobbyist like buying a stamps from NY Stamps to build a 'great' collection. Might they get 1-2 decent deals? Sure. Will their collection be good? Highly doubtful.

So my opinion is that you need considerable experience/knowledge to build a good computer (or stamp collection). For example, matching the case and its impact on the cooling capabilities of the system. Heat is the #1 enemy of electronics. While everything might be fine the first few months, heat will eventual greatly shorten the life of most board level components like resistors, caps, and ICs. Yet over and over I see custom boxes built without any real understanding of importance of cooling. Heat sinks, air flow and knowing how to measure and properly design them is not typical knowledge that 'shade tree' computer assemblers possess.

Some of this has to do with electronic component manufacturers rating their components with little (or no) margin of error. Intel is always the most conservative IC manufacturer and their components have plenty of margin; this makes designing with them more bullet proof (and costly). Other IC manufacturers do not give you this extra margin for mistakes. This is the kind of 'extra' knowledge folks should have when trying to build their own computers and systems.
Don

Hi Don

I worked in Aerospace, after getting out of USAF, as a technician, and engineer. When the Aerospace industry fell on hard times, I got a position at an architectural firm as DP manager. When the firm got rid of it's computer, a friend at IBM told me to become a consultant for them. In that capacity, I assisted in repairing some hardware and I developed software. I already had my BSE, so I quit the DP job and went full time for my MSEE along with the consulting. A friend was building a specialized compiler for the University where I worked part time as a programmer. He asked me to help and I became interested in low level software (compilers, assemblers, communications, etc.). My forté was connecting different machines together. My MSEE was 90% hardware and 10% software. So, before, I retired, I had 50+ years in hardware and software. I never liked management, so I accepted positions in which I "could sit in a corner and get clever". Even in electronics I always worked for an R&D company. I guess I am more a research person. Most of my programming was with some type of assembler language.

A friend, more knowledgeable in PC's, bought a computer from the shop I use. He said that the components were high quality and they are highly knowledgeable personnel. I had also specified an Intel machine, which I got. This machine has more fans than the usual 2 or so and heat sinks everywhere, so it really stays cool. Another shop I once used utilizes AMD almost exclusively, which I don't like. I usually ask to check out the "back room" and if it is messy and unorganized I will go somewhere else. The shop laughs that, as an EE, I won't even open the box.

Interestingly, I worked at a company where one of the people I worked with had a physics degree. Knowing that I had worked in an IC development lab, he asked if I wanted to help him devise a solid state disk drive. At the time, I thought he was nuts. Did I blow that one big time!!!

I agree that SSD is the way to go. I know the technology has advanced way beyond what I knew about solid state and my concerns should not be an issue.

I agree, Heat is the big enemy as well as the power source. I have seen people hang everything and it's brother on a computer and wonder why the power supply blew, or the mother board died.

You mentioned DELL as a good machine and I agree. But doesn't DELL have different quality machines depending on personal or commercial? What about ACER? I am not sure which is which, but isn't Acer Gateway or Gateway Acer? Thinking about it, wouldn't it be nice to have a Mil Spec computer


I became ill with panic attacks, so I retired. The hard part is the doctor doesn't want me to drive in case of an attack. That part sucks.

When I finish the ToolBar, and hopefully it works, would you like to QA it?.

Jerry B

I just got this computer from Best Buy this last Thursday to replace my broken HP. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-t...kuId=6293624

I wanted a laptop as I move around the house and need something to travel with and keep up with stamp sales, etc. I also wanted a SSD drive and 17.3" screen. Just using that criteria and Best Buy (Staples didn't have squat) I only two models to choose from. the above model and a Dell 2 in 1 Inspiron. I didn't want the Dell as I hate touch screens with a passion and didn't need anything that turned into a tablet. The Asus also had a better graphics card and a a few other better specs. It was $100 more, but so far I'm quite happy and have almost everything loaded onto it so I can resume auctions. I also like to play a few games. This Asus seems to be a lot better built and stronger than my old HP and definitely than my older Toshiba.

The graphics card wasn't even identified on the Dell - that was also a negative point for Dell. If I had the money I would have looked at the Dell XPS laptops, but they were too pricey for me at this time.

Chiming in with my 2 cents:

1. Mac vs. PC. Buy what you are familiar with and comfortable with. Are you comfortable taking on a huge learning curve to switch platforms? Do you have an investment in existing software? While Macs can run Windows software through emulation, it's an additional layer of hassle and potential incompatibility you probably don't want to mess with.

2. Dell. I agree with people's recommendations for Dell. My last 4 desktops and last 3 laptops have been Dell. The university college I work for buys exclusively Dell. To save money, I would buy from the Dell Outlet. Refurbished and returned Dells have the same warranty coverage as new, and depending on the configuration, you can save large amounts of money. My last 2 Dell XPS towers have been from the outlet and you couldn't tell they had ever been used.

3. I would stay away from the Dell Precison workstation line. They can be finicky and replacement/upgrade components can be more expensive than the dektop lines. Also, they're likely overkill for your needs. Optiplex (business line) or XPS (consumer line) should do you fine.

4. RAM. More is always better. Only having 8GB can strangle a system if you work in Photoshop or are a multitasker (many apps or windows open at once). I recommend a minimum of 16GB. My current computer at work has 32GB and at home 64GB.

5. SSD for the boot drive is a must. Do NOT buy any configuration that has the OS on a traditional spinning HDD. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

6. Win 10 is a must. As mentioned above Win 7 is end of life. While Win 8 was an abomination, Win 10 has improved most of those mistakes. Win 10 nags you a bit and updates are frequent, but functionally it works well.

Battle,
Asus is like Dell, they have a wide variety of models ranging from consumer to higher end. For the money, that Asus you choose looks like a decent machine. It is hard to spec out a computer that handles lots of business graphics work without getting into the 'gaming' machines.
Don

Wow! I hope I havn't opened a hornets nest here, the response has been overwhelming. Thanks to all.

Overall what I have taken away thus far, and is somewhat comforting,
16Gb RAM is a minimum (I constantly have 6-7 windows open at once)
Dell is OK
SSD is recommended
Win 10 is OK ( I was hestitant about that)

I'll remain with Windows, I am always influenced by Postmaster GS, (Mac)
but I even feel anxiety in the transfer to a new Operating System as it is,
loading the scanner, printer, wifi, two computer screens, and numerous software packages, my virus protection....Sheesh. I am not looking forward to that.

Some things still amaze me, and I am not being discourteous here, but my good friend Jerry still "I prefer storage (backups) on DVD-R/W. "
I left that 5 years ago, I found it problematic, the USB external drives are a whizz, cost next to nothing, do my backups whilst having tea. Stick 'em in the TV to record High Def. I just couldn't do without them.
(That's also why my strong desire for USB3)

Again...thanks to all contributors, very much appreciated.

2 TB external drive are less than $75, perfect for backups. And forget backup software, it is nothing but a drag to compress/decompress backup files. Simply plugin external drive, copy the files, unplug the drive and store.
Don

Late to the discussion here, but Rod, what you've outlined above is reasonable and should stand you in good stead for years.

16GB RAM as min, Dell (I buy all Dells for work/home), Win 10, and SSD HD if possible. Or a SSD primary and non-SSD HD as secondary works too. Make sure the tower has plenty of USB ports. External drive for regular backups and you're covered in case of disaster.

SSDs do seem to have come of age.

My only question about them is has the industry spent enough time rolling out programs to properly secure-wipe them when you are ready to part with one?

I ask since I haven't researched this yet, and the wear-leveling algorithms that apply to flash based technology are very different than traditional disk write algorithms.

Encrypt it. You can shred it but you have to make sure that the piecees are really, really small (read as costly).
Don

Hit it with a hammer.

I recently purchased a refurbished Lenovo PC...customised to my specifics...250GB SSD...1TB HD..16 gigs of RAM...8 USB ports (4 of which are 3.0)...Windows 10 Pro minus the bloatware.
I am quite happy with the upgrade...even migrating from Win 7 to 10 was easy!.
Great advantage of the operating system on the SSD is that boots up and shuts down in around 15 secs.
The PC cost me about $360..and although refurbished..no issues so far!