1c 1857 Plate 11 Stamps

James, are you using Neinken's book on the One-Cent 1851-61 stamp as a reference?

I'm sorry, but I don't have a book for a reference, just using stamp smarter which doesn't seem to have very complete examples of plates 11 and 12.

No worries. The standard reference in monograph form for these stamps is The United States One-Cent Stamp of 1851-1861 by Mortimer Neinken. It is publicly available in pdf format from The United States Philatelic Classics Society (https://www.uspcs.org) under Resources/Electronic Library. Scroll down to Neinken alphabetically. Pages 7-10 provide a very concise description of how printing plates were created using line engraving (including a definition of reliefs).

You are correct in your surmise that the stamp in question is from the top row of Plate 12 (the guide dots in the upper right corner are located in a different area on Plate 11). I'm not sure about 9L12, however. I'd be more inclined to go with 9R12 (no image in Stamp Smarter) based on the drawing in the Neinken book showing a small dot to the right of the large guide dot, as your stamp seems to have. Incidentally, Plate 11 has to date not been plated and remains somewhat of an enigma (although there are several philatelists working hard to crack this nut). Plate 11 material, especially the multiples needed for plating work, is comparatively scarce.

jamesg and dudley - I agree that it is a top row stamp (relief "A") from plate 12, but I think a better match is 1L12. The horizontal line at the top bisects the large guide dot, and the line is higher above the ornaments than it is on 9L12 or 9R12.

widglo, you may well be correct. My decrepit eyes did not perceive a guide line at top. The second small dot (if indeed part of the printed image) still casts some doubt for me, however.

ETA: PS, check your email

FWIW when this was posted I made a quick run-through and my eliminations left me with: 1L 2L 8R 9R. But it was hastily done so I didn't reply.

Thanks ALL - I'll post a better image when I get it which may provide a clearer image.

Getting near the end of trying to plate these, eyes just aren't what they used to be and I can no longer see the details in the Neinken images

I'm on a local auction house mailing list so still get invites to their auction.

Knew this was plate 11 or 12 IIIa so threw in a low bid and won.

Can't quite see the details in the "N" of one due to the cancel. Am I seeing anything?

stalizer - Nice stamp. It appears to me to be a plate 11, relief "A". I see the lines you mentioned in the "N". Neinken states that about a third of all plate 11 stamps he examined were double transfers, so perhaps this is one of those, although it doesn't appear pronounced.

Here is one I'm pretty confident is from plate 11, I checked the plating mats for plate 12, and no dice there. Right hand side has pretty good layout line, leading me to believe it is from plate 11. Just looking for confirmation on plate 11, and if it is a plated position, would like to find out that info too.

Definitely plate 11, A or B relief. The cancels obscure some useful relief areas, although with a bit more time spent I suspect it could be sorted out.
Type IIIA #22.

The right side layout line indicates its from either column 10L or one of columns 1-9R.
I don't think these were typically perforated down the centerline, so that likely eliminates the 10L column.

I think I'd go with Relief A on this one, though Reliefs A and B from Plate 11 are not always easy to distinguish.

Thanks for the feedback, good to know I got the plate right. Are the reliefs the same on plate 12 as they are on 11? The same roll was used for both plates, if I remember correctly. Any ideas as to why plate 11 wasn't used as much as plate 12? Lots of questions, though I know someone has at least some of the answers.

No, plate 12 has a different transfer roll with different reliefs.

Both of these plates were made right around the time Lincoln got elected, tensions were mounting and the civil war was around the corner. That, combined with Toppan Carpenter's contract ending in 1861, all somehow added up to the giant mess that both of these plates are.

They certainly used plate 12 more than they did plate 11. As to why? Both were a total mess, so its anyone's guess, really. Maybe they didn't like the shortened tops on the A+B reliefs on Plate 11 anymore, and wanted to retain more of the design to impress the government somehow. So the reliefs on Plate 12 are certainly more complete (top+bottom lines at least), than the plate 11 ones.

A recent article by Bob Boyd in the CHRONICLE (v. 74 n. 4, November 2022) tackles these questions.