Purchase From A Brick & Mortar Dealer - Your Thoughts?

There is no catalogue or catalogue values for 2 of my areas for selling very recent, very hard to get Used Australia.

One area is Aus interpost self adhesives and Aus end of 2015 till now $1 gummed/sheet stamp issues in sets & singles. So I have to find my own value per stamps. Doing ebay BIN listing only.

There is also 2 other areas but catalogues cover them to the max but I still use my own formulas to get my pricing.

200% above face value, 150% above face value, 100% above face value and 50% above face value. Plus I have a bottom fixed price to these stamp valuing formulas of $2. We also offer free mailing inside Australia.

All other areas sell very well at face value.

Don:

First, thanks for your moderation work. Forgive my delayed response, as I was enjoying dinner with my wife :-)

I think I have yet to articulate my question clearly. I understand that the ratio of price-to-SCV for a single stamp purchase will vary with variables such as condition and grade. To re-pose the question: (1) Tabulate, say, 100 different online single-stamp purchases of all kinds; we agree that the $/SCV will be unique for each of the 100 observations. (2) Tabulate another 100 single-stamp purchases from over-the-counter store visits. Again, each will have a unique $/SCV. My entire question is predicated on the assumption that we can measure two averages for $/SCV from the two normally-distributed set of observations: one for online purchases, the other for over-the-counter. When we calculate the average of ratio observations, we normalize (hold constant) variables such as condition and grade - which is why the data for any single purchase is irrelevant. When comparing the two averages, (1) there may or may not be a statistically significant difference between the two averages; and (2) the delta between the two averages can be estimated within a selected confidence interval.

To be clear, I'm not asking anyone to pony up the data; I'm guessing that veteran philatelists have an intuitive feel for these averages.

One of the significant variables may be purchase from store, bourse, mail-order, auction or on-line. Although brick and mortar stamp dealers vary in competence, it is likely that differences in competence will be significant because many on-line sellers are not professional stamp dealers. On-line buyers not able examine stamps in person may bid or pay less believing that they may receive damaged stamps they don't want and can't return. Jim Kloetzel, the editor of the US Specialized Catalog, pointed this out years ago in a Scotts Monthly article.

If it was possible to test variables for significance and independence. In principle, Logit models of buy/don't buy by venue behavior could be constructed. Variables like income, frequency of Internet browsing, proximity to a dealer or travel to bourses may be important but difficult to determine. Income and travel to major stamp shows may correlate with exhibiting.

It would be safe to say that stamps sold on-line are less expensive relative to catalog because a higher percentage are off center or damaged. In my experience, desirable sound, well centered stamps sell on-line at similar price levels to stamps that sell in face-to-face transactions. Brick and mortar dealers and bourse dealers will accumulate unsaleable stamps unless they are aggressively discounted in bargain boxes , or sold off in collection lots or sent to auction. Unsaleable stamps from defunct brick and mortar operations often end up listed on ebay and may remain unsold for months or years.

Well my 2 cents worth
I've been dealing with a dealer for the past 4 weeks organizing a purchase of a #1a.
Not only did I get what I consider a bargain, I have an opportunity lay buy, I have learned so much in such a short time just through banter and I believe the beginnings of a solid relationship and friendship based on trust and integrity.
Sure I'll buy from ebay for fillers and low values but quality and a solid purchase that you have no doubt's about, I'll take a dealer and one I have a relationship every time.

In my opinion the buying examples above are anecdotal. Every stamp is different, so trying to compare selling venues on 'similar' stamps is wrought with problems. It would take a very large dataset to overcome individual stamp differences and be able to compare selling venues.

If a hobbyist wanted to compare selling venues, than you would want to use the same stamp across multiple venues. Buy a stamp at a brick and mortar, then sell the same stamp on ebay. Do the same for other auction (online and offline) venues. Rinse and repeat in all directions and build a good dataset. Make sure that a stamp is described exactly the same each time it is sold. Make sure all other selling variables are exactly the same (i.e. asking price, shipping, T&CS, etc.). This would give you a good handle on the deltas between selling venues.
Don

I wish I still had a brick and mortar stamp store nearby where I could go and sit for hours, chatting with the owner and leisurely examining my potential purchases. Years ago, when such was available, I happily paid more for the stamps I bought than I might have online. Why? Because I valued the relationship I had with the dealer, the knowledge I was able to gain from him and the assurance that I knew exactly what I was buying. Unfortunately all of the brick and mortar dealers near me have either died or sold out and moved to Florida.

So, to address your question, I definitely paid more (higher percentage of Scott) for the stamps I bought from my local brick and mortar store than I did for stamps bought off of ebay or from other online dealers. But even though I paid more I believe the stamps I bought locally were a better value.

With that resource no longer available I now try to find online or mail order sources that I can trust to provide a similar value. Once that trust is developed I have no problem paying a little more for stamps than I would from an unknown seller on ebay or a similar venue.

I'm not sure if that provided the answer you are looking for but to sum it up, in my experience I would expect to pay more at a brick and mortar store (they have high overhead after all) but in return I expect to reap numerous somewhat intangible benefits which result in better value, not least of which is helping to keep that invaluable resource in business!

You get to examine items at a brick and mortar store before buying so that should add a certain premium compared to online buying. I am also more inclined towards buying a very expensive stamp at a physical store than a virtual one.

Stamp evaluation is difficult enough without the added hammer of applied mathematics. A supporting judgement of whether or not you rec'd a 'good' or 'fair' deal is to compare your purchase vs transactions of similar items in the real world, whether thru ebay, brick & mortar dealers, and auction houses. Catalog values are just a guide. Any discount or premium is based on how much someone is willing to pay at a particular point in time. (Not including a buyers ability to spot reperfs, regums, sealed tears, creases, and a myriad of other faults and mechanical alterations.)

The reality is that here in the US storefront stamp dealers are all but extinct. So for 90+ percent of collectors the question of brick-and-mortar vs. online is moot. More applicable might be the question of purchases at shows and bourses vs. online. My take is that if I had to rely solely on face-to-face contact to build my collection I'd never get anywhere. That said, when I purchase at shows or bourses I can always be sure of what I am getting, and I always pay extra for this (my purchases pay for dealers' gas, meals and lodging). In no case, however, do I use percentage of catalog value as a measure of anything.

Thanks one and all for the responses. My take-aways from this thread:

At the end of the day, a true benchmark for $/SCV remains elusive. Many of you have reiterated the truism that catalog values are not an indicator of purchase price. No argument from me. Agreed that traditional brick and mortal establishments are a non-existent choice for many customers – making the discussion irrelevant to some… but not to all. In place of brick-n-mortar, my query should have posited face-to-face purchases (broadened to include bourses, shows, etc.)

Regarding statistical estimation: I still believe it's do-able, to a point. All admonitions about the disconnect between market and SCV are noted. However, one "bad yardstick" used repeatedly by many people is better than no yardstick at all; at least the distortion is applied consistently. For those of you who accept that, then (theoretically) there are two statistical approaches: (1) comparison of the average $/SCV for online transactions vs the same for face-to-face transactions, and (2) multivariate regression analysis of all transactions where the dependent variable ($/SCV) is a function of a number of independent variables, beginning with condition and grade; one could go to town with additional variables for type of venue, geography, and any number of buyer and seller characteristics. However, the effort required to amass such data is prohibitive. It requires many people to collect data, and each would make his/her own subjective measurement – so then, "garbage-in-garbage-out" becomes an issue. This pretty much bars the multivariate regression option. So the first alternative (comparison of two averages) emerges as the "better" of the two approaches, warts and all. Someone with a lot of time on their hands COULD pursue this via ebay.

Having said that, a couple of responses here gave fuzzy approximations of what I was looking for. Hal suggested that a $/SCV ratio of 61% was "excellent" for a brick-and-mortar purchase. This is a nominal (non-quantitative) measure, and better than nothing. Similarly, StateRevs indicated willingness to sell me any number of varieties at 50% of SCV. I got a good laugh from that. Still not a definitive quantitative measure, but another nominal metric.

Moving on now to the qualitative side…

There were some very thoughtful replies that reiterated the value of buyer-seller relationships sustained over time. For the most part, ebay engenders what I call "drive-by" transactions. I risk stating the obvious that this approach can be useful in some situations, but so too are the benefits of the ongoing relationship. A balanced diet is a strategic mix of the two.

Pursuant to the last point, I visited yesterday a brick-and-mortar store for the first time in decades. The whole experience was quite enjoyable. I intend to make regular, repeat visits.

Finally – I am reminded again that precise word choices are critical in an online forum. Here, we do not have the ability to clarify in real time as we would if speaking face-to-face. I dropped the ball in that regard, beginning with the title. It suggests that I was seeking an evaluation of one specific transaction. I had to add a couple of follow-up posts to make myself clear. Sorry about that, folks. Overall, I found this discussion quite useful.

Sad part is after you were done laughing as a result of getting your 50% bargain from me, you might start to cry when you realized you could have purchased the exact same material on ebay for 10% of cat. Scott's prices for almost all of the mint 1941 series US wines are wildly over-priced

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RE108-180-...f:1&LH_BIN=1

The key lesson is a collector has to learn the material and what the market is doing with that specific group of stamps. A generic 61% of catalog is worthless if used without understanding the market for those particular stamps. I would be over the moon to get rid of my wallpaper wines at 50%, while I have no problem paying 200% or more for federal or state revenues I have been chasing for years.

Many of these discussions end up about the validity of catalog value. It has disappointed many people. I wonder if Scott dropped their prices by 50% if that would change things -- other than making dealers complain about propping up their prices.

Oops, forgot to add: the dealer I visited was a husband and wife team who seemed to enjoy their vocation. There's non-pecuniary benefits all the way around iin that scenario.

Age comes into play with bricks & mortar v ebay. Buyers are just not so easy to cut open with a definition. So many issues come into play.

At auction it costs me more than ebay. All the old guys still get excited in open air bidding. We also get hit hard at auction houses by outside Australia mail bidders. And then there is the phone bidders.

Australian mail bidders set the floor price for the room bidders. The phone bidders pick the eyes out of most auction I bid in.

I have a very low opinion of shop front stamp dealers. Most are doing it so hard they cut corners. It is called ripping off the newbies & others.

I could shame a lot of shop front stamp dealers. And then it would be.....

As mentioned - you lucky to have a "real" store to go to.