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Cilicia Stamp Cover- Is It A Forgery ?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 991Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community

France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 03/02/2019   7:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add perf12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Bumped into this on e-bay.Something does not look right too me.If anyone has some thoughts
on it.
This is what looks wrong:
1) Added postmark circle lines.
2)Between the bottom of A & D,it is wide spacing.The right arm of A & the left vertical of
D are almost parallel.
2a) A & D are closer together at the bottom.Not parallel.
3)Dash seems to be a bit higher than the dash in the left cancel.

It looks like a fabricated cover with the stamp added on the left.The backflap is missing.





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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 03/02/2019   9:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Opinion: Looks genuine to me.

ADANA Postmarks contain a wide range of varieties, to wit :



Take you pick....
personally, I think you have type 13 ? or perhaps Type 14.

The big worry, would be the missing bars, above and below the date

some missing bars perhaps.......
http://www.isfila.com/images/koleks...dolu/118.pdf

Notice also, you example has only 2 numerals for the year.
By process of elimination, yours fits none of the styles shown.

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Edited by rod222 - 03/02/2019 9:52 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 03/02/2019   10:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The cancels on the block are genuine; the cover is forged to me. Point 1 is well taken but it's hard to make a decision off this scan as always, for me at least. But I would lean toward it being partly drawn in. Point 2/2a I think definitely makes this a forgery. Point 3, the partial cancel at the right on the block slipped a bit so I would not say the misalignment is useful info.

Now the reason I say the cancel is genuine is that I found the following on several blocks from a sold ebay lot:




Same date, style and city as the block on the cover. The same month /day date is shown in Rod's reference of the type 13 though the cancel is probably type 19 18 with year date "19" in western style; the blocks above have the check/control/device number 2. Not a coincidence as there are other blocks so cancelled (same date and type); singles can be found elsewhere too. We know Cilica stamps were favor cancelled/CTO; there are a fair number with gum and a lot of singles that have nice corner cancels.

So, yes, I'm pretty sure this a cancelled/CTO block of the 5pa stuck on on an envelope with a mint 10pa single, and the cancel drawn in to tie stamps to the cover.

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Edited by hy-brasil - 03/03/2019 04:04 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 03/02/2019   10:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hypothetical:
Should this be a genuine cover, what price range, would we expect to read as a reserve, do you think ?

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 03/02/2019   11:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If genuine and had a backflap, I would expect US$125-150 as a floor/minimum price. Pretty scarce in the scheme of things but with few cover collectors of Cilicia around, the price is not higher, I suppose. Picture postcards are much cheaper (many are philatelic though not always priced that way) as are parcel cards/fragments.

Here's yet another favor cancelled item from ebay (not mine) with the same date and city as above except the device is numbered "1":

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Edited by hy-brasil - 03/03/2019 12:13 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 03/03/2019   02:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for you appraisal HB.

Type 18. Usage 1912-1918 Rarity = C = Common.

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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 03/03/2019   04:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was assuming the cancel was genuine on the block.I have seen larger blocks of 8 canceled
in the same way.The cancel on the right edge of the cover is unlikely to occur in
genuine configurations.The Cover is addressed to someone Armenian;and knowing that there was
a large Armenian community in Cilicia at the time,may add some (potential) credebility to
a cover from Adana.
The seller is asking $ 179.99......(seller also in Armenia)

Tha problem here is not the cancel in the middle of the block( which is genuine o.k.)
but the re-drawn portion on the left stamp & the re-drawn portion on the envelope(right cancel) points 1.
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Edited by perf12 - 03/03/2019 08:02 am
Pillar Of The Community
674 Posts
Posted 03/03/2019   05:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mdroth to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly looks genuine to me, but I'll defer to you guys with more expertise on this stuff than me. But hy-brasil - your comments are confusing: you say the cancel on the block is genuine, but due to point 2 / 2a it is a forgery? Both of those comments can't be true at the same time - esp on point 2, which talks about the main cancel in the middle of the block??
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