3 Cent Locomotive Stamps

Hello,

Attached are a few pictures of a couple of the 3 cent locomotive stamps that I found in my collection. One, I believe is from 1869 and does not have a grill. The other, from what I understand, is from anywhere between 1875 and 1881. It does not appear to have a grill and has little damage. Could anyone tell me if I have something here?

Thank you,
Joe






*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

The stamps are US 114. You can clearly see the grill on one. The other grill is probably hidden in the hinge area.

Not back of book.

FYI - you need to get clear photos and crop out all but a tiny bit of the background for the best help. Even better is to use a scanner at minimum 600 dpi.

Thank you craig and redwoodrandy. I take that not back of book is a good thing.

-Joe

The "back of book" reference was for you and the moderators to move the question to the appropriate forum. I have been a "back of the book" collector/lover for 38 years starting with the John S Bobo collection auctioned off by Michael Aldrich. I specialized in Liberty revenues R series and now collect US Beer stamps, Fermented Fruit and even not in the book. I now venture into Drummond territory. Back of the Book is a great thing.

Back of the book is simply a series of stamps that does not include basic mailing postage, including revenue stamps. I agree with the others: the first has a grill but you should get an up close of the second for us to be 100% confident on the last.

John Bobo and Mike Aldrich. Two people who are/were certainly joined at the hip philosophically.

Joe,
While there are issues of both the 114 without grill, and the reprints, they are very scare items. The 114 without grill is generally only considered authentic if it is unused, and validated by an expertizing entity. They are valid "rare" stamps (valued over $10,000USD). While the grill-less 114 is rare, the 114 is the opposite of rare. It was the first stamp to have over 1 billion printed. It was the workhorse stamp of 1869, as 3c was the going rate for letters in the US, and post was the primary means of communicating over long distance.
The 1875 reprint used is also rare, at over $27,500 CV. There were only 1,406 of these sold, and most have gone missing. The odds of one of your 3c Locomotive are literally 1 in a million (well 994,035, so close enough).
The only 1881 (actually 1880 - 1882) reprint is the 1c Franklin pictorial, so this couldn't be from 1881.
I can say with certainty these are both 114s, both damaged, and essentially of little value. They CV for $18, but I've had great examples of these not even fetch $3 on ebay...

Thanks everyone,

Not sure if it was a good idea, but I soaked the stamp in water for a while and removed the hinge. I am not seeing a grill after removing the hinge. I will try to upload the new pics.

-Joe

Joe, since the stamp is used there is no harm in soaking off hinges or other paper remnants. We assume the stamp you are referring to is the second one in your original post. The first one clearly has a grill, although you said (perhaps as a result of a typo) "One, I believe is from 1869 and does not have a grill."

Dudley,
The 114 is known (and listed) in Scott as 114a "Without grill, original gum" (though that comment is add because it also does recognize a used instance, though I believe that is on-cover). Typically today, expertizing committies will not recognize a used 114 as a 114a, due to manipulation of pressing grills out, and without very expensive equipment ($60,000) forensic ID, it's really difficult. A couple of places do have that machine. (We're considering one as well, hopefully next year).
The special printing from 1875 is on hard white paper #125 (as opposed to white wove paper). So needs examination of paper type. However, there were only 1,406 of these issued. It's a scarce stamp to be sure, though a fair few of the known examples (around 55) are used (about 1/3rd). But consider the possibility please, there were over a billion of this stamp printed, (I think the first stamp to reach that milestone) and with fewer than 60 copies known, the probability of it being the 125 is slim, and even less for a 114a.

Who is "we"?

Classic Philatelist is the name of our company... not just a person, though I use that name synonymous on this forum, on ebay as a seller. We're in the process of re-launching our expertizing services, and this is a key piece of gear we want to add in. I promised Bill Weiss I would carry on the Weiss name, spirit and quality of work back several years ago when we knew that he was ill. I needed some time to get over that, but we're getting ready. I'd like to have this piece of forensic equipment to add to the depth of skill and credibility of our new certs in the future.