Spain 1873 Scott #193 Crazy Bar Cancellation Value?

Please let me know your thoughts on this stamp. My Scott 2010 cataloge has a crazy valuation for bar cancellation ... has my stamp a legit cancellation?

Looks almost like some kind of precancel

Peter

These bars are printed to the mint stamp to denote that it has been withdrawn from circulation. It's not a postmark. It has not gone through the mail. You'll find on many XIX century Spanish stamps. There are plenty of them and its vàlue is next to nothing. In Spain precancels have never existed.

Christhered is pointing out that the catalog value for the remainder cancel is much higher than for a postally used stamp. Odd, but other catalogs price the bar cancellation higher, though not as high as Scott.

As explained, Spain "Remainders"

Thanks all for the insights.

Could you tell me if it existed what a Bar cancellation would look like ... Scott has a crazy valuation of 32K for it if it exists?

That's what is being shown above. The value in the 2010 catalog is an error then. My 2016 has $2.00 in italics. The tete-beche pair, #193a, catalogs $32.5k.

Translation from Filaposta:
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by Hades »Wed 8-Feb-2006 20:45
Exactly, the barrado was used to cancel the sheets already issued and demonetized. It consists of a coarse impression of five lines, the second and fourth of which are very thin, so much so that sometimes it comes together with the center, filling the impression.

It was used to cancel complete sheets in the hands of the Factory, the Ministry or whoever was, but still to be sold.

The loose copies of a demonetized issue in the hands of individuals were "exchanged" for their equivalents of the new issue. In this topic a swap document is displayed.

Another use of the barrado was to cancel false documents seized by the Administration.

Taking into account the strict control of the time, it is practically impossible that a barrado had circulated. I, at least, do not know him.

They are usually cheap, and I do not understand why. They are still new stamps and give a lot of information about the original print.

Anyway, the question about prices suggests an error of approach ... Being the barrado typical of the classics, the price distinction is not between new, used and barred. It's between new, barred, with this postmark, with this other, with this brand, with this dater, etc ... That's where the (huge) price differences are.
http://filaposta.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=2511
As it has been possible to verify in the successive interventions, the subject of the BARRED or unused stamps with typographic fillets, little is studied, not having generated enough interest within the collecting and having been discredited by the commercial sector.

It has been tried to elucidate its state of rarity, as well as why the stamps, once demonetized, were canceled in this way after 1854. Both issues require a different treatment. Personally, I consider the second question more interesting, although I admit that at the level of collecting in general it could be the first.

Known is that the collector is usually motivated to get the stamp that is missing. In the classic period of Spanish philately, the barred stamp fulfills a subtle function, sometimes unnoticed by many collectors, and this is none other than to provide this, the possibility of getting certain stamps even in this state, barred.

Let's develop this question with a couple of examples: We have the value of 1 REAL of the 1854 issue, in thick bluish paper and printed in light blue (Edifil 34A). To this stamp the catalog, does not give you any quotation in new condition (it may not exist), in used round 6,000 € How many collectors can incorporate it into your collection? In usual conditions to collect in new or used the stamp. The truth! very few can be the privileged ones that can do it. On the other hand, this same barred stamp does not have excessive difficulty in obtaining.

Another emblematic case is the NE 1, of this stamp they conserved a hundred of copies in new state, since the totality of the emission was unusable sweeping it. The catalog gives a quote of about € 2,000 in new and as in the previous case barred can be obtained by a few.

The moral of this whole matter is instructive, on the one hand, as indicated by an earlier intervention, we have rare stamps that by the simple fact of being barred lose this condition, on the other hand, their price in the catalog does not decrease proportionally. It would be the case of the two previous examples that are the fourth and second in the price of barred stamps. On the other hand, the fourth quarter of the 1866 issue has a quote of € pair and how many do you see? The one from 1867 is not even cataloged and exists.

Exposed all the above, it can be concluded that the value and not the rarity of a barred seal, is not in its condition of being, but rather in that the stamp is intrinsically rare. The collector usually goes to cover holes in the album and these are covered with whatever.

For today it is enough, perhaps in a next occasion I will explain more.

Greetings.
http://www.filaposta.com/foro/viewtopic.php?t=4541

Great Post ! Perf 12 Thank you.
Fascinating treatment, on these unusual stamps.
Thoroughly enjoyed the read. Saved.

Here are some additional bar cancels, some not often seen, and some to be aware of.

From the information that perf12 provided, here is the 1R light blue on bluish, that is being referred to. This stamp, unused, as well as postally used, would cost most collectors an arm and a leg. These bar cancels are a cost effective way to fill a spot in a collection.


Which brings us to something to be aware of, and that is FAKE bar cancel remainders. let me explain. Some of these issues are very expensive in used condition, but relatively cheap as a bar cancel., which gives a perfect opportunity for someone to try their hand at fakery.

These examples of the 1R light blue and 1R dark blue are both bar cancel remainders that someone attempted to mask with a common grill cancel of the time period. On one, they just overprinted the bar canel, and you can see remnants underneath. The other one has had the bar cancel erased, or lightened, and then the oval grill applied over.




Then there are these total, and rather crude, forgeries from the same issue, with fake bar cancels on them. Why they bothered to try and fake a bar cancel on a forgery, I'll never know. Butyou'd be surprised how many people are fooled by these thinking they are genuine bar cancels. The forged stamp is easy to spot by the C in CORREOS missing the serif on the bottom.


This is the NE1 that is referenced in the perf12's post. The unissued 12cu orange. Only fond as a bar cancel, a rather expensive unused stamp, or as a "specimen".


This is an interesting one. In 1865 Spain issued their first official perforated stamps. Apparently, they were experimenting in 1864 as well. The 2c and 4c can both be found perforated, but the 2c is only found as a bar cancel. Here is mine side by side with the normal imperf version.


You can also find stamps from the period with a single, printed (not pen cancel) bar, which many people also assume are bar canceled remainders, but which are actually referred to as "muestras", or specimens.

Wow! jolly good post there Spain_1850
Spiffing!
Fascinating. Saved.

Thanks Rod! It's been a while since I've visited my Spanish collection.

Is this also a muestra or specimen (Scott #56)?

No, that is a pen cancel. This often happened when the postal clerk, at the post office of origin, forgot to cancel a stamp and it was necessary to "cancel" it with crossed pen strokes, upon arrival. This was per a postal decree in 1857.

Thanks. Glad to know it's a stamp that was postally used.