Why Do Auction Houses Get A Free Pass When They Charge Excessive Shipping?

It may mean that they include insurance to reimburse you for the price you paid if it is lost, but you incur the risk of not getting what you purchased.

I include in all of my ebay listings that the refund does not include shipping costs as insurance does not pay for shipping costs. Before changing my ebay terms, I sent several packages overseas, and though I obtained receipts from USPS for mailing, ebay charged my PayPal account for the full amount including shipping costs when buyers claimed they did not receive the packages. One buyer had the gall to list an item on ebay six months after he had claimed he did not receive it. ebay had already given him a full refund from by PayPal account.

And those terms in your listing are meaningless.

1. Insurance most certainly DOES cover shipping costs.

2. For most scenarios on ebay, you are obligated to refund shipping. That has become the standard. Depending on your settings or the reason for the refund, you may be required to pay for shipping both ways if it is a return.

You can put anything you want in the body of the listing as "terms" and they mean exactly nothing. They are not binding.

I mean no offense. First, please tell me what postal insurance (or other insurance) refunds shipping costs? None I have used do. For example, I had a package with registered fees paid at full value lost to Spain. It was fully trackable until the USPS transferred it to the Spanish postal authority at the Madrid Airport, then it was lost. The only part of the claim USPS paid was the purchase price with no refund for shipping costs (which included not only the cost of the registered mail, but of the postage, packaging and handling). Despite my additional attempts to recover any portion of the shipping costs, USPS said they considered shipping costs as the non-refundable fee for the service and refused to refund anything more than the actual sale price. It takes at least a month to get an insurance claim paid and the amount of the total claim is reduced to only the value of the goods lost. When you look close at insurance terms, virtually all have fine print (which USPS points out when you dispute the amount paid) that shipping costs are not covered by insurance. [In a way, it is like claiming a refund for your auto insurance when you make a claim for damage from an auto accident.]

Second, as to terms you add to ebay listings. I checked with ebay customer service several times to see if I could modify my refund policy to exclude shipping costs because insurance does not cover them. Customer service said I could as long as the change is clear and emphasized (like in bold type) in the listing so that buyers could not miss the changed term or would have no confusion understanding the explanation. After I started using the modification in my listing, a potential buyer submitted a complaint that my listings contained a prohibited term about refunding shipping costs. My further communication with ebay led to that complaint being unfounded. Just to keep ebay honest if you are going to change a term, I would contact ebay Customer Service in advance and fully document what ebay says (including who you talked to, when and the full extent of the communication) so that ebay does not change its mind at some time in the future. In other words, KEEP A RECORD OF EVERYTHING ebay AGREES YOU CAN DO AS A SELLER. YOU MAY NEED THAT INFORMATIOIN IN THE FUTURE TO RESOLVE DISPUTES.

I use third-party insurance, e.g., Shipsaver, as the rates are lower than USPS rates, the coverage includes the shipping costs, and you can insure 1st class international shipments (which you cannot with the USPS). The only requirement is that the parcel have tracking.

There are other volume third-party insurance carriers that offer blanket protection for a flat monthly fee, some of whom will cover shipments even without tracking numbers, but my volumes are not high enough to justify that.

Basing policy/terms decisions upon what someone from ebay tells you over the phone is not a prudent decision. It doesn't matter what an overseas script-reader told you; it's not binding. When push comes to shove, ebay's default policies will override any exclusions or deviations in the body of your listing. Period.

eBay's resolution of the complaint of a potential buyer that my refund policies violated ebay's rules and ebay's instructions on how to clearly identify in each listing rule modifications are more than someone's word over the phone. I have provided refunds for items lost in shipping without refunding the shipping costs. Again, document everything ebay agrees to, and if you are concerned have the buyer verify before you ship that if lost in the mails (and you can prove mailing) that the refund is limited to the item price and does not include shipping costs.

As to the third party insurers you mentioned that refund the shipping costs, does that include a refund of their insurance fees?

Where in the world are you getting this from? Proof of mailing is worthless with both ebay and PayPal, regardless of what the buyer may "agree to" outside of the formal purchase terms. Whoever told you that proof of mailing constitutes anything at all was sadly mistaken. You as the seller, bear the obligation to ensure delivery, thus the requirement of "Proof of delivery" (not "proof of mailing"), and that in the event of nonreceipt, the seller refunds ALL costs, including original shipping. Period. End of discussion.

You are attempting to circumvent ebay's terms and conditions either based upon what some minimum-wage overseas phone operator is telling you, something you read somewhere, or something you are making up. The ebay discussion forums are rife with reports of " ebay told me over the phone that..." which were ultimately nullified by the ACTUAL terms and conditions.

You are giving out VERY BAD advice to people.




I don't believe so, but the insurance cost is nominal compared to the product and shipping costs. I currently pay US$0.79 per $100 of coverage for domestic shipments and US$1.00 per $100 of coverage for international shipments. That's a small fraction of what the USPS charges, as they charge in $50 increments.

Quoted for truth. Whatever T&Cs you put in the listing is meaningless beyond the ebay's official policies. The written ebay T&Cs are the contract that both sellers and buyers agree to, throwing extraneous stuff into the listing is totally meaningless.
I cannot imagine walking into court and trying to make a case that 'Joe at ebay support said that I could do this...'.

Even at a common sense level it would be stupid for ebay to allow 102,356,955 different T&Cs across all the listings. What buyer would want to sift through so many different T&Cs?
Don

I believe revenue collector is correct but he didn't mention that Shipsaver pays claims in a few days. It is also a lot more customer friendly to refund shipping charges than to pursue an ebay exception and insist on not paying them. It makes you look like a difficult seller to work with and I wouldn't buy from you.

Just use Shipsaver, refund shipping charges and all will be well.

Dear revenuecollector:

I am not accusing you of making things up. Please do not make such accusation of me.

For years, ebay has been ambiguous about what a seller can or cannot do, intentionally not fully clarifying its policies with the belief that in doing so it will attract more buyers.

Check with ebay, any special term you want to put in a listing requires the term give clear notice to the buyer. ebay has general policies about buyer and seller rights. If not illegal, changes may deviate from general policy. Otherwise, ebay opens itself up to actions for anti-monopolistic practices and as the imposer of contracts of adhesion.

Again, I am not recommending a seller just go ahead and change a term. What I am saying is do your homework and get verification from ebay that the variation from its general rules you want to use is permitted by them.

I appreciate the information about third party insurers and will look into it.

abctoo

I have been on ebay since 1999 as a buyer and seller and with Paypal since they started.

When it comes to returns or INR, nothing you put in a listing for terms and conditions means diddly squat.

The only thing that matters is what is in ebay's and Paypal's policies.

If you do not believe that, give me one of your item numbers with your special terms and conditions, let me buy it and I will file a SNAD to prove your conditions mean nothing and I will get a refund. You can fight it and will lose.

The only time proof of mailing MAY mean anything is in the case with a Paypal charge back or unauthorized use dispute.

I'm not going to rehash everything again. My concern is that readers here that are new to selling on ebay might take your incorrect recommendations.

My recommendation is that people NOT attempt to do what abctoo is advocating.

And, if you use insure post (Shipsurance) for insurance, and include the shipping charges in the total amount insured, you are covered for the full amount if lost.

I agree with the recommendations that people do not try to modify ebay terms. That is, unless they get permission in advance from ebay. ebay does not like to respond to e-mails or other writings, so that it cannot be pinned down.

I know that before I modified the term I had to refund the shipping costs of lost items even though I had a receipt from the post office proving mailing. Since I changed my terms, whenever I have a postal receipt to prove mailing, I have not had to refund the shipping costs.

PayPal has enforced my refund policy by not demanding a refund include the shipping costs for the lost item. Remember, ebay and PayPal were the "same" company until Carl Icon forced them to split apart. That means PayPal has to act in a manner consistent with the terms of the payment it receives and no longer can hold you to any ebay conditions to the contrary.

Never use a modified term on ebay! That is unless you can get approval from ebay first. Such approval will take you some effort to obtain. But if successful, it may be worth it. If you try without putting in the effort, you will probably pay the price.

To others: results may vary. Dare to implement these tactics at your own peril. You may find yourself out on a limb. I wouldn't do it.

P.S. This thread has veered so far off topic from its original intent that I don't know how useful it will be without splitting it.