The Philatelic Foundation Grading Upgrade

Over 4800 certificates from the PF alone, 95 and over. Sure they are rare. For all I know PSE might have over 10,000.

http://pfsearch.org/pfsearch/pf_grd...lledfrom=lkp

I took the Siegel PSE search and refined it to just 1851-issue.
In order to make some sense of the data, I think it has to be in manageable units, so I thought I'd look at just this for starters.

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....ubmit=Search

I only made it to page 2 of the search, when I ran across an item I used to own, that didn't used to be a single. Siegel sale 1199, lot 1037.

https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...199-lot-1037

When I sold it, in 2005, it looked like this:

http://www.bennettstamps.com/cgi-bi...=1347&lang=1

This is a one-off obvious example of what we are talking about, and it took me almost zero time to literally stumble across an item I didn't even know was cut up.

Well, on the search for 1851 issue PSE graded stamps >= 95, just at Siegel - there are 449. Of course, no doubt some duplicates exist..

On each page of 10 stamps, I sampled about 6-7 pages up front, and some at the end.

My rough method was to count only stamps that I felt showed a lot of another stamp present. Many pages had 5 that qualify, but some had less, with 4 being fairly common.

Lets round 449 down to 400 to make math simple, and account for some duplicates. If 4 out of 10 stamps on each page, or 40% are jumbos, that's 160/400, aka 40%.

Concluding from this, rough measurement, that likely at least 40% of the 95 or greater jumbos from the 1851 issue are probably the results of cuts. The number is probably much higher, due to more precise cutting on others.

I should point out that I almost never see an on-cover usage of an 1851 issue single stamp that shows a large part of an adjacent stamp, and is also itself, 4-margins. It happens, yes, but very infrequently.

'
txstamp points us to an interesting approach: the population of jumbos on covers, versus the population of jumbo singlets (on tongs?).

This gives us a measure of the extent of the all-time cutting.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Greater then 95 means nothing. 95's are a dime a dozen and 98's are not that scarce as Revcollector pointed out. So far txstamp has directly pointed to one cut up multiple. Waiting for facts to back up the claim. If one cut up multiple is enough to condemn the grading industry be prepared to condemn many old time dealers from those dreamy Nassau Street days because it is not a new practice and given the massive quantity of certificates issued to date the practice does not even register from a statistical standpoint. This is not about mass mutilation. This is an emotional topic and a component is an irrational fear of change.

Sorry but that's a load of BS. It's far from "one cut up multiple", it's dozens, possibly hundreds if one includes 20th century and BOB material. Just spend time looking at the last 20 years of auctions concentrating on graded collections and those having "outstanding stamps". Several happen every year, there is plenty of material out there. You don't want to believe it because you like the ego boost graded stamps give you.

And then there are the "less common" stamps that become still more less common by the day, because people cut them up while destroying the 6 or 9 stamps around them.

Look at how many got cut up in this sale alone. Half the imperfs from the look of it.

https://siegelauctions.com/sales.php?sale_no=1199

By my count 20 anyway.

Those artificially created jumbos sure look ugly, IMHO.

They are low value stamps Rev and you know that.

Scott 9 Jumbo 100:

https://siegelauctions.com/lot_grd....tFirst=First

Count the jumbos from cut up multiples. No need to remove your shoes.

Lot 15 of the 2018 Rarities sale. Lots 505. 507 sale 1172. Lot 12, 16 sale 1163, the list goes on forever. And I only looked at classic imperfs of a few sales.

You are up to five...…..

I realize that my posts can get wordy and hard to follow.

160. Not 1.

Now, as to when those 160 were cut, I don't have time to research.

I am, at best, a part time contributor to this forum. But Rogdcam I like your impartial approach. You obviously collect and value graded stamps-me, not so much. But, at the end of the day we are both collectors and each of us enjoy what this hobby has to offer.

Folks, there is no right or wrong answer here. Graded stamps are more than likely here to stay, and so are their counterparts. As I stated earlier, the market will sort out who is right and wrong in this argument from a value perspective, and there are valid points to be made for each school.

I am a relatively new collector, and so are several other friends of mine (who, by the way, are spending quite a bit on their collections). IMHO, fellow collectors should be welcoming us with open arms. The furtherance of this hobby depends on the passion, dedication and investment of new collectors. It's not about what you collect, or whether you're right or wrong for collecting it. What I'm trying to say, in a roundabout way, is we are all in this together. Consequently, I believe we make better allies than adversaries. So, let's advocate for collecting stamps, no matter what areas you might pursue. . People will always collect differently, so let's embrace that, and move forward.

Just my two cents in the "for-what-it-is-worth" department......