#65 Color Differences

Color guides are paper and ink just like stamps, so they also change over time. Commercial color guides like Pantone recommends replacing their color guide every two years.
Don


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The Pittsboro used color chips. I've not seen any change n them. I've also compared the Pittsboro sheets(with chips) that are from the 90's to the Scott Specialized Color guide which used the same chips from 2005 and there isn't a difference. Granted, these aren't exposed to UV and other daily issues like a stamp and cover are/were so any degradation would most likely be much much slower.

Hal wrote:


You quote the copyright date and think nothing of it? Theft is theft.

Understood. But paper is paper, ink is ink, and chemistry is at play and will not be denied. It is inevitable that all color guides begin to change as soon as they are printed. Very costly paper and inks can be used when publishing but this does not make them immune from aging.

Current industry color guides manufacturers also offer color guide in coat metals chips and plastic chips, but these too change over time. The recommendation to replace these is only slight longer than color guides printed on paper. Note that light exposure is only one of a large number of environmental factors. Paper is a sponge, it absorbs and exchanges atmospheric gases with ease. Storing a color guide in total darkness does not mean it will have chemically changed over time.

But I do agree that the changes can be slowed if the color guides are kept in ideal environmental conditions. Obviously the trouble with purchasing used, older color guides is that you have no idea about its previous environmental conditions.
Don

I often wrote some posts when color was discussed and also think it would be a good approach to get some color guides digitalized (in a color management environment). Nobody will expect the colors to be exact, but it's always useful to get the idea of a color.

I also use Pantone and some other color guides in a professional area, and I don't change them as Pantone says... the color changes not its nature after 2 years and 1 day. In addition, if you have a profiled monitor, you can always compare with the Pantone colors in Adobe products.

After all, color is something that we can handle, both in print and in displays, and it would be a good try to make digital editions of the White's encyclopedia and the Morris' color guides. In both cases I think it would be possible to get the rights of use if one finds the current owner of them.

Good luck ID'ing the A25 colors with the Pitsboro chips. How would you ever be able to do that when the stamps are a different saturation and intensity than the chips.

I have a copy of them. It was what intrigued me in the first place to start collecting the different colors of the 3c 1861.

Mike McClung ID'd the 55 colors, and he did that by arranging 10's of thousands of dated covers by month and year date. He gave me once a .PNG of 30 of the colors, starting with '61 going to June of '63, before the article in the Chronicle with color photos. I asked Mike at that time if it was OK if I shared the PNG file, and he was fine with that.

That being said, Don, would you like this file to put it on StampSmarter? I'm more than willing to email it to anyone who sends me an email. It's a 7meg, 1-page file, and you can zoom in. File has never been that much of a help to me, but it's the only reference I have, and these shades aren't in Roy White's book.

Thought I'd toss it out there-- please let me know your thoughts
Ray

Under U.S. Copyright Law only the copy/text content of R. H. White's reference is covered, not the images of U.S. Postage stamps our owned by the United States Government, in perpetuity, and no individual, corporation, et al, may copyright, trademark same or then generically philatelic used an accepted color names. I did not suggest re-printing the text portions of R.H. White's publication.

Ray is correct that there are more colors for the 3c 1861 stamp than in the color guides. We can be glad than McClung did such a great research here. But for the other stamps (and also to get a main idea of the pink vs. rose 3c stamps) the Morris color guides can be helpful. Same is true for White's Encyclopedia. And we always have to think about collectors who just start collecting colors and wonder what is the difference between carmine and rose or between claret and dull red. Even if the image would not be perfect, the nature of the color, and especially the contrast to the other colors would help the beginning color collector (I had those questions once).

The rights of use of White's book are probably within its family. Perhaps somebody knows somebody who knows them and can ask. It's only a question, and I don't think the won't give the permission to get his books digitalized. Of course someone would have to do it....

The rights of use of Morris' book are probably at Scott, but perhaps also still in his family. So here the way could be the same. If it's only at Scott and they won't share, then the question is if the Munsell chips are known which would be a great help, too, to have a list of Munsell colors for the stamps.

Digital copies of both books would not be perfect, but would help to conserve them for the future while the real books will fade out more and more.

Hi Ray,
Thank you for the kind offer, if you have the time please send it to me and I will get it published.

I am always a bit ambivalent about stamp color discussions, on the one hand supporting the efforts that folks do is important. On the other hand, promoting stamp colors as an identification method is a slippery slope. But I have a lot of respect for folks who have invested the time and effort in building large color stamp reference collections, understand the total dependency upon ambient lighting, and have fine tuned their color eye.

Talk to anyone who deals with color identification for a living and on a daily basis and they will quickly relate the issues. Wander down to the local paint store and ask about returned paint. (If you ever want a deal on paint simply ask about returned paint and they will be happy to offer you a discount on a pallet full.) Or go talk to a label printing company who only gets paid if their label product exactly matches a Fortune 500 company logo and see how they match colors.

Inevitably women have far better color vision than men and this has been proven in many studies over the years.
https://jov.arvojournals.org/articl...leid=2191999
https://bsd.biomedcentral.com/artic...42-6410-3-20
https://bsd.biomedcentral.com/artic...42-6410-3-21
One popular theory is that women have developed more cones (cones/rods) in their eyes than men through evolution; as the gatherers it was critical to be able to differentiate colors for survival (i.e. eat the wrong berries or mushrooms and everyone dies). Yet most of the stamp colorists throughout the history of our hobby have been men.

I think that promoting color research in stamps is important but this is probably the one area of philately that requires the most study, the most understanding, and the most money. Approaching this topic in a casual way or thinking that a hobbyist can correctly ID a color variation with a sample size of 6 and a decades old color guide or a digital image is a real stretch.

In many ways stamp color ID is a lot like home décor or website design; many folks think themselves experts. But the truth is that everyone simply has an opinion about what they think they see or what they think looks good. Being an expert and having an opinion are two completely different things. Color ID is also often approached as a 'lazy' way to ID stamps by less experienced collectors. If you have a pile of 50 used stamps, there will always be a few that seem to stand out. Our eye is drawn to these and some often think 'I have found something unique'.

These color threads are like having threads on identifying 50 of the "best looking people" in Hollywood. We could probably identify some of the "best looking" attributes that most everyone agrees upon (i.e. symmetry) and develop a loose list of actors. But we would never come to a consensus and it would always be an endless debate. Additionally over time there would be many additions and subtractions.

I truly think that one day ink chemistry testing will finally sort out color ID once and for all. This will drive the re-certifying of many stamps and no doubt uncover many surprises in both directions. Those with 'the most toys' will win; in other words those collectors who have assembled large reference collections will be the ones with the greatest chance of having the rare color varieties.
Don