Scott 10A Or 11 A? Worth Removing Stamp From Piece?

Found this in old album. Someone wrote '51

I assume they are suggesting it is a Scott 10a?
I am not good with color (although this stamp seems to have that richness I associate with Scott 10s). However, from what I remember 1851 would be too early for a Scott 11.
(However I don't necessarily believe the person who wrote '51)

Seems like a reasonable example if truly a 10a?. I have a more scarce Scott 10 already in my album and have been searching for a reasonable 10a to put alongside. Is it worthwhile soaking and removing from piece?

Now that I scanned it I'm a little worried about top right corner but I may not be able to tell there is damage until I remove it. Thanks for opinions

Has character, I'd leave it together. Nice cancel too.

I would not assume a Scott ID meant by a previous collector, but rather interpret the '51 as a stamp from the "issue of 51", and start the ID work from scratch with the current catalog numbers, etc.

It is an 11A.

It's a #10A and I honestly see no good reason to leave it on that grungy tidbit of a piece. It isn't much of a stamp though if you ask me.

I will stand by 11A Winston my friend. It would need to be plated to settle the matter.

11A, I would say. Nice impression, but it doesn't appear to have the clarity of #10 prints, nor does it appear to have the combination of plate characteristics for any #10 plate. From the scan, that doesn't look like a #10 color.

While that may be a common refrain around here, the truth is that people that know the 3c stamp, rarely need to resort to plating a stamp to identify them. I am sorry Rog, mon ami, you are just wrong.




The idea that all OB stamps have a superior impression is also a common misconception. If that were true, Plate 1 would not have to have been re-entered twice, Plate 2 re-entered once, and Plate 5 re-entered once. The truth is the OB plates did wear, perhaps faster than any other plates, and produced plenty of less-than-perfect impressions.

Winston - It would be educational if you could share your insight as to why this is a 10A. I am not an expert such as yourself but am always willing to learn. Thank you in advance my friend!

I really can't provide much insight. I could definitely plate it and show you that it is a 10A or the alternative is to just tell you that it looks every bit like an OB stamp. A quick glance is all it takes to recognize the look once you know it. After you've seen thousands of them, you get really good at it.

I would tend to lean towards it being a 10A, as well, but I suspect there are enough plating characteristics to allow plating. The bottom frame line looks like is curls up slightly as it gets to the left end. Also, the space between inner and outer right framelines appears to get narrower near the bottom. If it were plated as a non-10A, it wouldn't surprise me too much, though.

ETA: I can see this as a decent looking 10A or a superiorly-impressed 11A that has gotten a bit of discoloration from the envelope paper. Someone should take the time to plate it for real 'proof'.

How's all that for a definite maybe??

Soak it off. That paper is stained and ratty. You will be able to discern the color better if it is off the piece. I'm not yet an expert on this issue, though I have been playing with the colors of this issue and have handled hundreds of them. My 1st impression was that it is an OB.

Thanks for opinions. I will soak off and then re scan next to a bunch of 11s for comparison
Amazing how many different opinions
I consider myself advanced beginner level on 3c . May have to plunge into this more like the 1c.
I consider myself advanced on the 1c (not expert though like others on SCF) as I have plated 100 plus stamps and read the books/bible on it.
3c would be another journey.

My impression of this thread so far:

1st guy: Is this 10a or 11a?
2nd guy: 11A. (no reason given)
chorus: Yeah, 11A!
3rd guy: 10A. (no reason given)
2nd guy: 11A. We could settle this by plating.
3rd guy: pfft! whatever!
2nd guy: Well, why, may I humbly ask, is it 10A?
3rd guy: I dunno, it just is. I know stuff.
chorus: Yeah, 10A!
1st guy: Riiight.

Winston (Sinclair) has saved my rear before ... I am quite aware of his expertise in this area
I still owe him scotch from 3 years ago when he warned me (correctly) not to bid on that B.S. certified Scott 8 in "rarities of the world auction" at Siegel . That opened my eyes to a lot of badness in this hobby unless you educate yourself

Position 78R2E

10A orange brown