Identify This US Stamp 70d Or 78c With Thin Paper?

Over time, what specialized varieties get listed of a particular stamp has been somewhat haphazard. I am aware of a couple instances where a particular collector personally owned a lot of a particular variety, and was a recognized expert, so when he lobbied to get it listed, it was listed. That, no doubt has been repeated many times.

Of course, many things have been listed for perfectly legitimate reasons. I'm not implying that there is anything nefarious here. Instead, I'm implying that there are many reasons that things get listed. Including by mistake, such as listing an unused 1c Z Grill way back when. I was re-reading about that last night - it got removed eventually.

Stamp collecting is and always has been about whatever the individual collector wants it to be about. This includes as much minutia as suits a person. Catalogs do and should separate things by minutia where appropriate.

The issue is when particular varieties are so hard to identify reliably, even by experts. That is a litmus test I've often used myself, when I debate whether I think a particular item merits a listing. If the answer is that its too hard to reliably identify, then, the answer usually should be 'probably don't list it'.

An exception to that might be if the item is of significant importance, and really is a distinct difference. Then it might be worth the trouble.

For anyone interested in technical research past and present specific to philately this link to The Institute for Analytical Philately Reference Library is chock full of information:

http://www.analyticalphilately.org/..._library.php

I have been reading the color related research documents in particular because of the topic of this SCF thread.

Don - If this link or material is contained within Stamp Smarter I apologize for the redundancy.

You would think that the PF would have actual samples of each of the 24c color varieties.
This is not the case as in my conversations with the PF they admitted they do not
possess reference stamps of all color shades in the Catalog. So that is why they
rely on outside experts to help identify subtype shades.

Interesting. Several decades ago, a friend, and member of this board, loaned a color chart that he made of the 24c stamp to the PF.

Back then, they had the same issue. I'm pretty sure my friend reclaimed his chart at some point, and its too bad that the PF hasn't remedied the issue over time.

I guess that something like that would require a donation in order for them to actually get the material. Then someone would have to put it together for them.

Personally, I think they are doing it exactly the way they should. A few people at the PF cannot possibly do an adequate job of expertizing all U.S. stamps. Other experts are absolutely necessary, be they dealers, collector specialists, or some combination of the two. I am of the belief that specialists should do most expertizing, we would be talking about bad certs much less frequently.

A hybrid specialist/expert scheme does make sense, as long as experts at the PF are generally ultimately responsible for condition verification : perfs, gum, faults; and specialists more for identification. In general of course.

Interestingly, I had been following this thread with interest over the past couple months, and happened to have my own Scott 70 in at PSE for certification. I don't know the color varieties well enough to know if I might have a scarce variety or not. Just got the results back yesterday, and it's a used 70d. Nice surprise!

[link]http://psestamp.com/Cert/01371868.html[/link]

Matt - Color wise your certified 70d is nothing like the op's stamp. Congratulations by the way!

Wow! Amazing

I would have guessed mattodd's stamp to be a steel blue but congrats anyway. I thought the PSE did not grade stamps with faults. Doesn't tears qualify as faults? Unless my eyes are deceiving me there appears to be an area just above and northwest of the left star at the top that is not present on the right star and does not appear to be a cancel. Can anyone else see what I am referring to?

The cert identifies "tiny tears at top"

Matt. Comparing your 70 to mine I can
truly say that the color is very much the
same shade. Congrats. I know the PF
will not grade stamps with major faults.
I was not aware that the PSE will.

Funcitypapa I see the top left star
as one of the torn areas. Your eyes
aren't deceiving you

Update on my 70 stamp at the PF.
They say Cert. will be issued in
10 days. We will see.

Update. Contacted by the PF yesterday.
Decision coming this week as stamp was
returned by their consultant. Stay tuned.

I am thrilled to report that the PF issued Certificate 564844
my stamp is US 70d with original gum and small thin spot
Not visible except in fluid. The paper adherence that was
removed may have been hiding this small thin spot.
Grading not done since it had small thin but certainly a 90+
in the opinion of all who have seen this rare stamp. There
have been only 8 other unused 70d stamps in the history
of the Philatelic Foundation most all with major faults.

Congratulations
Thanks for this thread and all the information contained herein.