261A For Sale With Clean Older PF Cert - Newer PF Cert As Reperforated Missing

This is becoming much too easy to do. I have to wonder just how many stamps are being sold sans certs that point out alterations/faults.



The Hipstamp Listing:

https://www.hipstamp.com/listing/26...ins/11032620

The PF Database Information:

http://pfsearch.org/pfsearch/pf_grd...lledfrom=lkp

The nice thing about the PF database is that if you put the older PF cert in their search engine, it shows you it has been replaced/updated.

It's always been easy for anyone wishing to take the time. Alas.

I don't think it's any different today then it was 10 or 20 or 30 years ago or more. The methodology is easier, but the numbers were always there.

My new MO is whenever buying expensive US stamps (for me, only 2-3 times a year), make sure and buy it on extension, then get your own new cert for it.

Seeing stuff like this makes working on my worldwide cheap/common stamp collection all the more enjoyable.

This (and the other instances recently noted) is rather sobering.
To paraphrase something Rogdcam said in another context, don't drink and bid... Got to avoid exuberance and do your due diligence.
But this starts to bleed the fun out of things.

Where should one draw the line for risk management purposes? I believe I recall one or two forum comments that folks set a personal line at $300, above which they would ordinarily get a new cert.
But I'm thinking maybe there are some mitigating circumstances that might push the threshold up to say $500.

As a concrete example, I'm looking at a stamp with plate number attached that seems to me to ice it for the stamp being what it is represented to be. Clearly, I have to think about whether it could have been regummed, or reperfed. But I would slide up a bit to a $500 threshold.
That's playing the odds, I recognize, and is partly a recognition of what one is prepared to lose.

As to reperforation specifially, would anyone be able to share a URL where there might be some photos of microscopic views of reperf jobs that one could look at to try and learn about this.
Is it my imagination or is the reperforation of this one visible to the naked eye where there are right-hand perfs that are wider than ordinary? Not obvious to the drinking bidder but ...

Thanks,

Jonathan

In my opinion an important part of this issue is not poor auction houses or sellers, it is the fact that poor auction houses and sellers find support even among knowledgeable buyers. There are numerous threads were buyers say they will support a poor auction house or seller when something they want is offered because they have the experience to pick and choose the good material; ignoring that each sale contributes to keeping them in business. It is very easy to write a post condemning a poor auction house or seller but much more difficult to make a real sacrifice when finally finding that elusive stamp or collection that you really want; thoughts of what is good for the hobby often goes out the window.

As you guys know we have been working hard to improve this situation by developing a searchable PSE cert database to assist buyers in making better informed buying decisions. There is already significant man hours poured into this project with many more to go. It is incredibly tedious work which relies heavily upon drawing from your motivational well. In in the context of motivation, know how many new donations Stamp Smarter has seen so far this year? One, one that was made yesterday and the fellow requested a free t-shirt. But when I notified him that I did not have the shirt design in the size he wanted (had another design in his size), he requested that I return his donation. His donation would not have even covered a single month of website hosting costs. But even though returning the donation cost me money (PayPal fees lost) I have to dig deep to retain my motivation for continuing to pour hour after hour into this project, Stamp Smarter in general, and moderating this community.

Point is, I have little control over how other folks behave but I have 100% control over what goes on between my own ears. So instead of pointing fingers at other people and letting this stuff get me down, I remind myself to not rent head space to self-interest behavior or other things which are outside my control. Selfish bone heads, negative Nancy whiners, and those who constantly take from the hobby without giving back will not impact me, I will continue to push forward.
Don

My 2 cents: first penny - if you buy a 100$ stamp you better have 100$ worth of education and experience, the same goes for 1000 and 10000, certificate or no certificate. second penny - collect precancels, you can ignore the gum and avoid 99.9? of the faking.

That's it. This dealer will not get any of my business

Don, does donating to this site also benefit stamp smarter? Or is it completely separate? Just curious...it makes sense that people should give back to the hobby.

While I dislike dealers immensely, I have bought from Bill and not had any issues, mainly error material. I always thought him and Katz had sketchy arrangements in pricing/cornering. But I think he is sourcing from same auctions I participate in, and looking to sell stuff at or above catalog, up from where he is buying them.

I think he knows material better than anyone, and challenges the findings on certs, to his advantage. He lists 1000s of stamps, and I've found if you just inquire about a stamp, he will at least do due diligence and answer you.

Opinions are just that, and can be contested, but I think certs shouldn't be discarded. They can just stand on their own. Ideally he should just display them too and indicate his opinion contrasting. Throwing away unfavorable certs is hardly a new behavior.


Dishonest dealers have an intent to deceive. I just don't think that's his motive, or he would have been out of business with his volume.

Hi Mrita75,
Stamp Smarter is not a part of SCF, I am only a volunteer Moderator in this community.
Don

In my mind, I am not sure that dealers have an obligation to invest in time on hunting down previous certifications. I suppose that an argument could be made that when a dealer offers multiple listings with 'missing' certs that always lean in their favor, the trend could be said to indicate something nefarious was happening. And certainly if a seller has been notified and yet continues to list the stamp then the behavior is highly suspect. For this specific listing, I am unsure if the seller has been notified.
Don

I see Don, good to know.

" challenges the findings on certs, to his advantage"

"challenging" a cert is one thing, making one you don't like disappear is an entirely different thing

The seller, billsbargainstamps, has the subject U.S. Scott No. 261A listed on ebay, twice at the same time and for different prices. One listing mentions no cert while the other listing included the older of the two certs. I sent the seller an email, through ebay, telling him of the double listing thinking that it might be an oversight on his part. I also informed him that there is a more current cert available regarding the stamp and what its opinion is. Dave