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A couple more ondule convoyeur/TPO cancels


A line ending in Luneville...still trying to decipher the starting point.




The centering on this one isn't the best, but beggars can't be choosers when it comes to cancels. I've been through a French Gazetteer trying to decipher the name, and I've narrowed it down to a couple...more work needed, though.

This may be a daytime mail train cancel, if I'm not imagining an octagon for the inner "circle." Anyone else see an octagon?




And one last one, a dashed outer ring that just caught my eye. Another (over)generalization for early French stamps...if the inner ring is dotted, it might be overseas usage...if the outer ring is dotted, it was probably used inside France.



Keep in mind that everything I have to say about cancels is subject to double checking and correction. I am far from a specialist.

Lovely stamps with cancels unknown to moi.
Thanks for posting.

Yes, thanks for posting Cjd! Very nice to see and get some hints about them, or something to double check anyway!

It looks like an inner octagon to when I turn the stamp so a flat of the octagon is on top it is more evident.

I know what you mean when you say I wonder if it is that shape. I bought some Hungary that I thought, because of the poor scan, had a hexagon cancel. You see what you want to see sometimes.

RE: Puzzler 03/02/2010 7:47AM: Manchester UK Metered Mail and Google Mapping addresses for a walking tour.

GoogleMapping addresses on covers is very interesting. And if you can GoogleMap your own or your Aunt Martha's, why not an address on a postal history cover? Since there are clubs interested in zip codes and spray on cancels, how come there is no philatelic club with a national affiliation that GoogleMaps postal history addresses?
For those of us who collected when we were kids before satellites were launched, before satellite imagery became known to the public (by way of such publications as Life and Look magazines and National Geographic, or such programs in early TV as the General Electric (GE) Science Theatre), did we not fantasize about foreign places? Did we not imagine what the street was like that our pen pal from Denmark lived on?

I GoogleMapped different non-postal locations for years before I realized it could be done. The first cover I attempted was last year about this time and it originated from a jeweler in Saudia Arabia, around 1948-1950, to apparently another jeweler or distributor or repair shop in Marseilles France.The address in Marseilles was a back street, perhaps an alley, the buildings had to date from the 19th century. The number plate was still on the building. But the view was typical of a 1940s movie made about (late?) 19th Century France.
The second address I tried was of a town in England, and that was absolutely charming. There are some risks of no success. There are addresses never having been satellite mapped so you will only get an aerial view, just a road map or a blank screen. Some communities have changed the street names and numbers (realigning), or there was total wholesale rebuilding going on. There is no chance of this Marseilles address having suffered any of this. I don't know if the house in England is contemporary with the envelope which shows the address.

Once you get a hit, not only are the views awesome, but it gets more awesome as you zoom in and enlarge. I have Googled my own address and have almost been able to see if I need any repair on the main roof---yes, an aerial view from about 40 or 60 feet straight above the house, also encompassing the front street and back drive. GoogleMapping my street at street level, I was just about able to see who was sitting at the bar in the nice taproom on the corner (the door was wide open).
I have even GoogleMapped the addresses of "vest pocket" dealers whom I have dealt with, you know those that deal from the library of their homes, though that might touch on invasion of privacy.
For we Americans particularly, but for anyone interested in the American heritage of the Wild West, I want to note that not only did I Google the famous Rock from which the Lone Ranger and his horse Silver waved to all of us, it is discussed in depth at "b-movies at the old corral"(that's your search word), and was used in a few other films that were non-cowboy.

I have encountered a few such addresses victimized by change. The two houses I lived in in Gadsden, Alabama. The steel plant in Newcastle, Pennsylvania where my Dad worked for two years. And addresses I attempted in Saudia Arabia and in Kobe Japan were completely impossible. First of all, Japanese addresses are probably understandable in their arrangement only by the Japanese despite the on-line explanation of their system (Search "Japanese Addressing System", the result comes from Wikipedia site). Also the longer Japanese and Arabian addresses (using Roman alphabet of course, though their script equivalent might also appear in the box upon completion of your entry) sometimes do not completely take in the search box. Second, for Japan, the "----Chome" part of the address is a key element. It could be that the programmers put in only Chomes 1, 2, 3 and not 4.
It could be that the Postal Authorities redistricted the delivery/Chome zones. In the case of the Japanese cover, there was a total rebuild at some point post WW-2. The buildings were absolutely tomorrow modern. And the designation of the postal district had been changed.

But if you do succeed in getting a GoogleMap "hit" the rewards are magnificent. While I did not get the Japanese hit I had hoped for, the street scene that I encountered was still quite rewarding.

For the moment, I am sharing with everyone interested in this discussion two postal history addresses;
(#1) 7 Yamamoto Dori, 3 Chome, Kobe Japan. The real house number is 7 1/2 but the fraction is difficult to enter. The address is on a 1941 cover originating from Canada. I did not get a 3-Chome hit, but I did get a hit. It could be dead-on the very GPS pinpointted site of the address, but obviously it is not the same buildings, there has been a massive rebuild and a rezoning of the postal district.
(#2) 47 Alexander St., Chesham, Buckinghamshire, UK., from a cover dated 1945. You can enter just that information or you can include the postal code HP5 3 UK. You can zoom in on the number plates at the doorway to legibly read the house numbers and navigate from there. Take a walk around some of these streets. Fascinating. Also walk down to Cameron Road and Berkhampton Road, each of which are in the immediate area. BlankPage

BlankPage
I understand your fascination for GoogleMap. I tried it once to see our house. I believe it's interesting to see where the cover came from and go to. But for me it's like a hobby beside philately. My other hobby beside philately is poetry so what can I say... Daniel

BlankPage, for the Kobe address, you won't get anywhere without the '-ku' (or Ward). Remember Kobe is a very big city - and that it was largely flattened in the great 1995 Hanshin Earthquake.

Re: Rod222 on 3/27/2010 concerning the red stripes on the bottom of Cjd's red block of 4 SOTN Levant overprints 3/27/2010.

Our commeorative issues 1920-1930s and Farley sheets had arrows in the margins. They are control marks I beleive. BlankPage

Sorry Blank Page, that is incorrect.
These marks are known by various names, I have them as "ladders"
amongst others.
They had several usages, to stiffen the plate, but the main reason
was an anti-forgery device.
These were used in areas of gutters etc where otherwise blank
pieces of perfed stamp paper could be used to forge stamps
employing the blank watermarked paper.

I would quote from memory
Easton 1950 "Postage stamps in the making"

I think this



(Travancore-Cochin SG O10g)

is the sort of thing you have in mind as 'ladders', Rod. And then there are (what are often called) 'jubilee lines'



(Travancore-Cochin SG O10fc)

intended to strengthen the plate. The red wedge in the margin is a guide mark to help align the perforator.

That's a nice little tidbit.

Excellent Tony.
Your perforator man was a little lazy that day?
(Travancore tends to make one drowsy, it is such an idyllic place)

Yes, Rod, the operator of the machine seems to have been quite easily distracted. Whether by the beauty of his surroundings, or a fly crawling up the wall, is unclear.

Just briefly on the subject of perf guide marks, Bhopal did the same - on every row and column in some cases:



(SG O333)

(Is there a thread specifically for marginal markings?)

Nice Tony.

Not sure if this is a correction, or just another term.
John Eaton refers to them as "PILLARS"

How about the German? is that "Tete Beche via gutter"?

Just another point, as described in the photo image,
the "pillars" as we shall call them, also did/could do the same
job as the "jubilee line".

In a 'forme" of plates, it was found without due support,
the paper would often "creep" in the printer by the large gap
between the plates, giving a slightly skewed image
on occaisions. The pillars were introduced, in part to address this.