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Philip Ryle/ Cartel Strike Again On A SCF Member To The Tune Of $3600

 
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Posted 07/02/2020   12:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rogdcam to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
http://goscf.com/t/73292

I broke this out from its original post because it was receiving no attention and needs to. Floortrader has a thread going regarding an eBay buyer screwing him over.

Well, this is a $3600 plus screwing over by the cartel whom most of us know have been operating with impunity for many years now. Is anybody curious why and how this continues?

This cartel seller ID "bank-notes" is as old as dirt and just as grimy and yet here it is, scamming away at will for big bucks whilst the "owner" sits in prison for VAT fraud to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds.

This is actually quite an amazing story.

Thoughts? Ideas to shut this down? Nobody that could ever seems to give a donkeys rear end about doing anything.
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Posted 07/02/2020   05:06 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think that the issue is not that people like Philip Ryle exist but rather that they are able to scam others largely due to good people sitting on the side lines without getting 'involved'.

Everyone would have to participate to let others know that what is really going on. Unfortunately many people are scared and refuse to publicly be involved, this is what happens when intimation is used. And of course the philatelic press and large organizations are also silent on this situation. Why are hobbyists not at least pressuring them to get involved and help our hobby? It angers me that those who are most benefiting from the hobby are those who are sitting on their hands when it comes to educating hobbyists about scammers.
Don
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Posted 07/02/2020   08:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The real issue not that others sit by. It is that someone is willing to spend $3600 on a pig in a poke on eBay from an unknown seller for a supposedly rare item with zero proof. THAT'S the issue, and no one from the outside can fix that.
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Posted 07/02/2020   09:18 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So the message the hobby wants to send to anyone who might be interested in is 'you will have to invest a few years in the hobby before you spend any significant money and even then no one will tell you who the scammers are'?

I think we agree that education is the only weapon in the war against fraud and deception but my but my point is that the education is not easily found and understood. In my opinion our hobby has the legacy and history of a real lack of transparency. Our philatelic press and organization do not seem to want to discuss anything negative about the hobby. And I know that there are many people who are scared to even mention Ryle's name, they contact me privately and tell me this.
Don
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Posted 07/02/2020   09:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mongoose23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I completely disagree with your pig and a poke comment. Part of investing is looking for opportunities and I have purchased many items on eBay at a bargain. The key is education, which is one of the reasons I joined this stamp forum. I did recently purchase a 99R2 that began at $0.99 at no reserve and had it authenticated by PSE. That said, I agree with Studebaker's comment on the importance of knowing who you are purchasing from. I understand that there are a countless number of fraudulent stamps that were produced and I would attribute this to one of the reasons stamp collecting is a declining hobby.
I've been buying and selling on eBay for years and I attempt to review the number of transactions, comments from buyers and existing inventory for sale before making a purchase. Regarding this particular seller, they had several auctions of supposedly mint and rare stamps sell for much more than what I paid. This is a truly talented scammer and I'll gladly join the fight to have them removed.
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Posted 07/02/2020   10:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There have been endless posts on this board about scammers. And yes, one SHOULD spend a few years getting an education before spending big money, that's only common sense. And if one is going to spend big money, then do so with recognized legitimate dealers. "Part of investing is looking for opportunities".....if one is only buying stamps as an investment, then I have even less sympathy, because the first rule of investing is to understand the market and the potential in it. That is impossible in stamps without knowledge, and usually genuine investment is impossible in stamps even with knowledge. For sure there are bargains to be had, but finding real bargains of stamps with significant value are few and far between.
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Posted 07/02/2020   10:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamp-collecting is not, in general, about investment, but about harmless pleasure. "Fraudulent" stamps are hardly a reason for the decline in stamp-collecting - indeed, I suspect that the copies of stamps from the pre-1914 were welcomed by many as an inexpensive way to fill spaces.

I'm not in the world of blowing $3,000 - or $300, for that matter - on a single stamp. If I were, as others have pointed out, I'd be buying with a cert provided by a reputable expert or expert body and I'd be purchasing from a business with something other than a few eBay feedback ratings. Just as I shouldn't buy my notional pig from someone I met on my morning walk to the coffee shop.
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Posted 07/02/2020   10:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have found many bargains on eBay as well, but I have decades of experience. Plus most of my bargains are in revenues, where most fraud is easier to spot from a scan. At least for me.
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Posted 07/02/2020   10:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mongoose - Part of the problem, as Don pointed out, is the lack of will to take on Ryle by the major philatelic organizations and publications. You have been buying and selling for years on eBay and yet were completely unaware of the Cartel/Ryle. That should not be. Sunlight IS the best disinfectant. eBay will do nothing. Ryle has been using eBay for many years if not a decade. The account that you bought the 120A from, "bank-notes" is not a new account for Ryle. It has been used for years as well.

As far as transaction numbers and buyer comments goes they really mean very little to nothing when determining a sellers integrity. The other items for sale likewise tells a buyer exactly what? That the scammer has multiple scams going?

I am not trying to rub salt in a wound. I empathize with you for being a victim. That being said pursuing a case against Ryle through "channels" will do nothing. Again, unless philatelic organizations and philatelic publications (electronic and otherwise) take this activity on and make it hard to not see this will continue. eBay will not respond to buyer complaints. They will respond to a page one or two feature story in Linn's or The American Philatelist. And the focus must continue for as long as it takes.
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Posted 07/02/2020   10:58 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
He has previously been NARUed by eBay due to buyer complaints and other rules violations. In Feb 2011 eBay Trust & Safety closed all the known accounts used by Ryle (mistatenpercent, golden-hoarde, emmastamps, etc) for shill bidding, misrepresentation, false identities. Then in Jan 2014 eBay Trust & Safety again closed several new selling accounts used by Ryle (great_stamps, airmail, stamp-collecting, us.2.u, etc) and more than 40 malicious buyer accounts used to place false bids, leave false negative feedback, send threatening messages.

But because eBay actually does no real vetting whatsoever for new accounts, it is simple to make another 30-40 accounts. Hell, you can even buy existing accounts (do an online search for ' eBay accounts for sale') with existing high number of feedbacks and 100% rating.
Don
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Posted 07/02/2020   12:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add redwoodrandy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Regarding this particular seller, they had several auctions of supposedly mint and rare stamps sell for much more than what I paid"

The above statement requires a lot of thought. Sold to whom as a start?
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Posted 07/02/2020   2:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One way to "beat" the system of buying fakes/forgeries described as genuine is to only buy forgeries, as forgeries.

Dr Carl Walske did very well buying Sperati forgeries that are now worth substantially more than he paid (and worth more than genuine in some cases)

https://www.sperati.org/
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Posted 07/03/2020   7:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I always spend some time doing research once the cartel/Ryle strikes again. On the day, 30 June, that the "120A" was sold by "bank-notes" (Philip Ryle) he sold many other lots which totaled over $47,000. And of course some research shows that the cartel accounts have transactions, real and genuine, for hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. It should be noted that "og_stamps", another cartel ID, is active.

How has this gone on for so long on such a scale?
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Posted 07/03/2020   8:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add uboatnut to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a guess? eBay gets their percentage of all sales. 13% of $47,000 = $6,345 in ONE DAY.

Why kill a golden goose unnecessarily? The cartel will refund your money if you prove its not what was described AND return the stamp. Of course, you're out the certification and shipping fees, but ........
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Posted 07/03/2020   8:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I wasn't thinking about eBay as much as I was law enforcement. We are not talking about short money here.
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Posted 07/04/2020   12:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add archerg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I recall the OP telling us years ago that 60 Minutes was doing an expose on Ryle and eBay! Please, I'd love an update on that.

Many of us (includes me) have spent a lot of grass-roots time educating collectors on this guy and his girlfriend / accomplices, in lieu of a concerted effort by eBay to vet their sellers.
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