E6 Identification Help

Hi,
Can someone help me? I have the two below pictured stamps, which I see as E6. But I'm having trouble deciding which E6 they are. Scott indicates:
1) E6 Ultramarine
2) E6 Pale ultramarine
3) E6 Dark ultramarine
4) E6a Blue

The top stamp pictured is a bit lighter than the bottom stamp. But there are 4 colors. My hunch is that neither of these are E6a. But I'm still not sure which colors these are. If I had plate numbers, that might provide more clues, but I don't. I'm thinking: Top: E6 Pale ultramarine, Bottom: E6, Ultramarine. Does anyone have any comments in terms of identifying these?

I'm not really any good at this but I'll tell you what I would try first
Google "colour ultramarine"and the hold the stamps up to it
Probably not the best way but it's a start
If I had to guess ultramarine and dark ultramarine but I'm a novice
There could be much easier ways

Thank you Just_Fella,

Right, or maybe Pale ultramarine and dark ultramarine. The problem with colors and rendering on computers is that there are all sorts of ideas on what "ultramarine" is. I can look at several examples of ultramarine, and see slightly different colors, or temperatures. Also, colors may render differently on different screens. Or, according to how the image was captured in the first place.

According to the notes in the catalogue, if we know the plate number, that can provide information about whether the stamp is E6, or E6a. Because the plate block "09" is not shown as existing for the E6a, then if the plate number had the "09", it would surely be E6. (I do not have pl#). But the colors would still give me some trouble. I know of one color guide sold by Mystic: (https://www.mysticstamp.com/Product...AlOZEALw_wcB). I don't know if I have to buy this; it would help with other examples of stamps which must be identified by color. I think this is a difficult process when faced with 2 or more similar colors on 100-year-old pieces of paper in used condition.

I'd say if you can afford it buy it
Hopefully it will come in handy many times and potentially bring more then it's cost in return.
If not Home Depot for some colour samples :)
Hopefully one of the pros will jump in and give you some real advice

One technique I've heard mentioned by several experienced philatelists is to find other stamps from the same country, from approximately the same time period, and ideally where there are not multiple color varieties with that stamp. (Commemoratives come to mind for this.) If a "pure play" commemorative from the period is not possible, then at least a definitive from the period where the most common shade is the color you're trying to match up to. Unused is better than used, because you never really know what a used stamp has been through (how many times it's been soaked, etc.) But, admittedly, unused is not always possible, but a damaged unused stamp would work in this case.

You need the same time frame because it's more likely the same ink(s) were used, and the same country for the same reason, and, finally, because Scott has not been consistent in identifying colors. (You can probably Google around about what a difficulty this has been for collectors.)

The color guides are typically only reliable for the same publisher (i.e., Scott color guide for Scott, Stanley Gibbons for SG, Michel for Michel). But again, there's the difference in time.

Linn's used to have a great article available online by Janet Klug about how to do this, but I can't seem to bring it up through Google, and I don't have a paid subscription to it anymore. (Perhaps someone else does and can check for it. Linn's also lost a lot of online content at one point, and hasn't necessarily gone back and re-created it all yet.)

How about starting at the very first step and tell us what the perforation rate is.

I agree with Stallzer,
To be more direct, the perforation rates are NOT the same on these two stamps, thus they both are not E6, maybe not either of them.

Neither one is; E6 is perf 12. These two are 11 on top and 10 on the bottom.

Thanks for the replies.

Philatarium,
Yes, thanks, I did turn to that technique of examining a known ultramarine against the examples. I may have made some progress.

As to the perf, I am measuring 12 for the top example, and 11 for the bottom. They should both be 12, as has been pointed out. I have no idea why one is 11. That's confusing to me.

I didn't even check at first because it seemed obvious that these "Series 1902" Special Delivery stamps must be some sort of E6. I mean (genuinely curious), what else could they be? So I just turned to figuring out the color for ID.

Look a little further in your catalog ... E6, E8, E9, E10, and E11 are all of the same "series of 1902" design, differing by perforation rate and watermark.

Then after the Scott ID is confirmed by the perfs/watermarks, the color comes into play, although most collectors are satisfied with the basic ID and leave the color differences alone.

John,

I see now, you're right! SD4 starts in again, and probably the perf 11 is E11. I'll remember that. I think when I saw the Helmet of Mercury, I figured it was SD5 all the way down.

Thank you! (I knew I would end up looking foolish--don't care.)

You aren't foolish Baker; just learning. Part of the process is simply learning to identify stamps by all the nuances they were printed with. Keep at it!

It is good to have a process. Design, perforation rate, watermark, paper etc..

Hi Rogdcam,

Of course, you're right. Actually, I have no watermarking equipment. guess I will get some Clarity. I had my eye on the non-chemical detectors, but those are pretty expensive. I think Clarity will do until I can try the other one.

Hi Philatarium,

I can access the Linn's archive, and I don't think I saw the article you're referring to. Along the way however, I found a couple of other interesting pieces (maybe the first one is your ref?):

"Simple Science Makes Yellow Stamps Easy to See" Klug: 10-19-2015.
This is about using blue. red, and green vinyl color filters to see stamps easier, in particular yellow ones.

"Understanding the Five Most Commmon Stamp Printing Methods" Klug: 12-18-2017.
Pretty much self-explanatory from the title.

The Linn's archive is very good, but I wish I could print pages at a normal size. It doesn't seem to allow this. You know, Why?

Baker, I'm glad you found those other articles. I'm sorry the one about creating a color reference guide didn't show up though, as I thought it was a great idea.

I did subscribe to Linn's for a long, long while (20+ years, probably), but didn't continue with it as of several years ago. They were building a good archive of their reference articles, and then something happened. I think it was a big data loss, but someone will no doubt remember accurately. They said they would work to restore the lost material, but I don't believe they were ever successful in completing that.

Since I haven't been on there for a few years, I'm not sure what's going on with the page print size, but I hope someone who is an active subscriber could provide some clarification and perhaps even a workaround.