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Help Needed With Rate: Victoria, Australia To Milan, Italy In 1899

 
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
975 Posts
Posted 04/02/2021   07:55 am  Show Profile Check 64idgaf's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add 64idgaf to your friends list Get a Link to this Message



This letter is prepaid 1½d. The Victorian rate for foreign countries in June 1899 was 2½d per ½oz.

From 1891, UPU Membership meant this letter was subject to double deficiency.

Until 1907, the process for marking deficiencies was for the originating country to mark the actual deficiency and the taxing country applied the double deficiency.

In Melbourne, a framed oval 'T 10d' (amount by hand) has been marked, suggesting the correct postage is 11½d. The marking is an error of process, international mail has the deficiency marked in centimes. The indicated correct postage, 1½d + 10d does not function as a multiple of 2½d. It is this that confuses me.

The local taxing has been overwritten with a T / 25c (centimes per UPU rules). This amount doubled in Italy and the 50c postage due adhesive attached.

Can anyone help me decipher the correct postage rate?

There is no evidence of a stamp fallen off.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 04/03/2021   9:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
suggesting the correct postage is 11½d.


Complete noob, regarding postage rates.
I see correct postage to have been 6½d
It was deficient at 5d, double that = 10d

11½d is the fine amount.
Where have I gone wrong?
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
3282 Posts
Posted 04/04/2021   12:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bobby De La Rue to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The postage rate was 2½d per ½oz

The 10d has clearly been written in. Is it in error for 10c, as in centimes?

Does 10 centimes convert to 25 centesimi?
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 04/04/2021   12:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The cover may have been 1oz with enclosure.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
975 Posts
Posted 04/04/2021   07:28 am  Show Profile Check 64idgaf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 64idgaf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Complete noob, regarding postage rates.
I see correct postage to have been 6½d
It was deficient at 5d, double that = 10d

11½d is the fine amount.
Where have I gone wrong?


Rod,

The rate was 2½d per ½ oz and that is where my confusion arises, nothing is a multiple of 2½d. It was only after October 1907 that double deficiency was marked. Prior to that, a single deficiency was marked here in Australia and the deficiency marked here doubled in Italy at the time of collection of the deficient amount.


Quote:
The postage rate was 2½d per ½oz

The 10d has clearly been written in. Is it in error for 10c, as in centimes?

Does 10 centimes convert to 25 centesimi?


A deficient marking of 10d only applied to domestic mail. Mail to New Zealand, the UK or anywhere else was marked with a deficiency in centimes and converted at the receiving end.

The incorrect 10d marking is struck over with the 25 centimes marking. The 25c converted directly (1:1) to French centimes or Italian centisimi.


Quote:
The cover may have been 1oz with enclosure.


A 1oz letter would have required 5d postage.

Thanks for the comments.

On reflection, it must be that an additional 1d stamp was attached (so prepaid 2½d but overweight). The third adhesive must have fallen off.
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Edited by 64idgaf - 04/04/2021 07:30 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 04/04/2021   3:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see any evidence of a stamp falling off,
nor any Pmk or part thereof.

I see a fold left quadrant, indicating stiff contents in the cover.

Via ? Shipping Firm ?
I'd prefer to go with a clerk error.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
975 Posts
Posted 04/04/2021   8:21 pm  Show Profile Check 64idgaf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 64idgaf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'd prefer to go with a clerk error.


I'm always reluctant to conclude this. The postal clerks looking at deficiencies were well trained and highly skilled. I always think it more likely there is a hole in my knowledge before I'll assume there was a hole in theirs.

Of course, there is a process error on this cover with the domestic marking being over struck with the correct one, so the clerks weren't infallible.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
975 Posts
Posted 04/04/2021   8:22 pm  Show Profile Check 64idgaf's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 64idgaf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Via ? Shipping Firm ?


The note at top left is via Colombo and Italia. I read these as mail route instructions, not ship names.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 04/04/2021   9:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The note at top left is via Colombo and Italia. I read these as mail route instructions, not ship names.


That was my first guess, but Colombo was not quite legible
and I could not think of any other route for sea mail, it just seemed obvious
(Fremantle to Colombo 3120 miles)

I had seen shipping lines quoted top left on other covers.

I was only familiar with "Via Brindisi" as routing.

Thanks for your help.
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