Overrun Nations Help Needed

Anyone an expert in normal vs reverse printings on these?

First up Greece. Any chance the top one is normal and bottom reverse?





and Poland. Again, Any chance the top one is normal and bottom reverse?





or are the pairs the same and just different inking intensities?

Possible fading from light exposure? Different plate printing? The intensity of the color in the lower ones appear lightened.

eyeonwall

Scott listing defines the reverse printing of 916:






Found these two in my collection. If I'm not mistaken there appears to be a lack of shading on the stripes. A normal printing would clearly show the shading. I'm far from an expert but think I have a normal printing and a reverse printing.

Thanks, gettinold.

Felt I was alone in not following the gist of this thread.

eyeonwall, I believe your Greece flag is indeed a reverse printing, but the Poland flag looks just under inked


Peter

Here is a France reverse print in an earlier thread.

https://goscf.com/t/48310

Since the reverse on the Greece is more common I am not surprised to hear the lower one is reverse, hopimg the upper one is the "norml".

Did suspect the lower Poland is just weaker inking.

More Greece info https://stampsmarter.org/learning/a...rRun916.html
More Poland info https://stampsmarter.org/learning/a...rRun909.html
(Exhibits from SCF member Hal.)
Don

eyeonwall

I have a cover dated 5/27/55 with a Scott 909. Looking closely at the stamp it appears the red covers the black ink. Looking at the 20 certified copies in the PF database I didn't see any dramatic difference between a 909 and a 909c. The example in the link provided by Don shows a significant difference between the 2. I don't know what criteria the PF is using to distinguish between a 909 and a 909c based upon their images.

"I don't know what criteria the PF is using to distinguish between a 909 and a 909c based upon their images."

I am going to bail on the Poland and will probably list the Greece on ebay for a 99c start and see if anyone salutes.

Hi "Gettinold"

Your POLAND appears to be a BLACK OVER RED Printing. The Black appears far too intense to be a "RED over BLACK" print. If you look at "eyeonwall's" bottom copy of the POLAND issue; that copy almost appears to be a RED OVER BLACK printing -- but closer examination is needed, at the points recommended in my Exhibit. So without seeing the stamp personally it's hard to make an exact call, so I would strong suggest obtaining a Certificate from the Philatelic Foundation or APS.

ON the GREECE Issue: Your top copy is 916, followed by 916a; both copies are found with First Day of Issue cancellations. The GREECE Issue is extremely difficult.

Unless you have excellent magnification available, attempting to "eyeball" these issues to determine "reverse printings" is an almost impossible task. A 10x Loupe does not work well. You need a minimum 12x Printer's Loupe, to view errors on this printing; electronic magnification is my preferred method or hi-res (800-1200+ dpi) scanning.

Hi Hal,
Thanks for the response.
When you say "The GREECE Issue is extremely difficult" do you mean ID is difficult or finding the normal is difficult (the normal being the one Scott has a dash for the value"?

"If you look at "eyeonwall's" bottom copy of the POLAND issue; that copy almost appears to be a RED OVER BLACK printing -- but closer examination is needed, at the points recommended in my Exhibit."

Is this good enough to tell?

Hi eyeonwall,

Yep, that scan is good enough even for my old eyes. It appears that you have a SC# 909c - POLAND - RED over BLACK.

As for the GREECE Issue, I had in mind"difficult" in terms in there are three basic degrees of shading in both 916 and 916a. It is difficult to determine the the Very Light 916 from the Very Light 916a. Some people have confused the Very Light printings of 916 as Reverse Printings which I do not believe exist in this Issue.

I have no idea why Scott has a dash beside the 916a. I consider 916a to be the "second" printing of the Issue as the shading color was adjusted/corrected was changed significantly from the initial printing -- for obvious reasons (the shading blended into the stripes). No one knows just how many impressions were in the 916 print run versus 916a print run, however the color correction was made early enough that both color varieties appear on First Day of Issue covers.

What DOES exist in the GREECE Issue, and is unlisted by Scott, is a Double Impression of the Black Flagpole. Keith Litchman and I have multiple copies of this variety obtained at different times from different Dealers. (see my Exhibit on StampSmarter).

Best,
Hal