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What Kind Of Stamps Are These?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 337Next Topic  
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Israel
37 Posts
Posted 06/23/2021   07:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add gum side to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I'm trying to learn how to distinguish (Palestine Mandate) stamp types based on their perforation/production appearance. Here I have a type of stamp which looks similar to horizontally fed coils but I don't know if that's what it really is.


1) This is the cover: 1x single 8 mils with a half-cropped gutter + a vertical pair of 10 mils with the same type half-cropped gutter:


Close up (the gutter is not folded over the back):




When a standard gutter is attached to a stamp this is how it would normally look:



2) This is what a full stamp sheet with this type of gutter looks like (here a 3 mils stamp, plate #2):



3) normally - for Mandate stamps - we'd see these cropped gutters as the selvedge for booklet panes (on either the left or right side of a pane), but a) the stamps don't have a single guillotined perimeter as would be expected from a booklet pane, b) the 8m wasn't issued in booklets, and c) none of the stamps on my cover have staple holes as would be expected from a booklet.



Does anyone have a suggestion what this kind of stamp may be?
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United States
294 Posts
Posted 06/23/2021   09:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add classic_paper to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I notice that the "imperforate" edge is uneven, which makes me think that is was hand-cut with scissors. Is it possible (as silly as it may sound), that someone just used scissors to split the gutter evenly, for some obscure purpose or just for fun? So instead of the left stamp getting the full gutter with both bars (like the lime green specimen), they now had left stamps with half of the gutter and the right stamps with the other half?
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Posted 06/23/2021   09:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interpaneau Gutter Selvedge.
I think the English parlance are "Ladders"
As suggested cut with scissors or knife.

Are you sure the booklets were stapled?
The two holes in the lower examples suggest they may have been threaded.
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Edited by rod222 - 06/23/2021 09:16 am
Valued Member
Israel
37 Posts
Posted 06/23/2021   09:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gum side to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The booklets may also have been threaded - and I think I've seen images of that.

I enclose images of a few more covers with these odd looking stamps, as here they are not affected by the edge of the cover (or overlapping).

The bottom example is unusual because it's cropped very close to the perforation, just by the vertical frame-bar of the sheet.

On this top example, is there any significance to the remnant of the perforations along the center of the vertical axis? Does it suggest how the stamp was detatched?









Thanks im advance for your insights,
Alex
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Edited by gum side - 06/23/2021 09:38 am
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Posted 06/23/2021   4:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
On this top example, is there any significance to the remnant of the perforations along the center of the vertical axis? Does it suggest how the stamp was detatched?


I'd still suggest cutting by scissors.
Remember, I am coming from Commonwealth postage stamp experience,
I have only basic knowledge of Palestine issues.

I have found the British verbiage, "Pillars" not ladders.

The bottom two examples, are beyond me, the "Marginal Rule Lines" suggest a differing plate design.
They do not correspond to the 3 mils plate.

I'll leave you with just my information, from a commonwealth perspective.

Jubilee: a special anniversary

Jubilee lines - These are also known as marginal rule lines. There are lines around the sheet margins of stamps and are so called because they were first used on the 'Jubilee' stamps of Queen Victoria in 1887.

To quote from Gibbons QV specialised,

" The " Jubilee " line is the uncoloured line extending round the pane outside the stamps. When the line is unbroken it is described as " continuous ", though in some plates the line has occasional
breaks. When the line is composed of short pieces with gaps exactly opposite the spaces between the stamps, it is termed " co-extensive ". The correct printing term for " Jubilee Lines " is " marginal
rule " and it was used to reduce pressure on the edges of the plate and so obtain clearer and better production.


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Posted 06/23/2021   5:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The bottom two examples, are beyond me, the "Marginal Rule Lines" suggest a differing plate design.


Perhaps I should have typed "Forme design"

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Posted 06/23/2021   5:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

India 1949 Nataraja
Co extensive marginal rule line, pin punched to indicate Plate 2.

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Israel
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Posted 06/24/2021   04:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gum side to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Rod! I'm trying to improve on my terminology so I appreciate learning the finer points of the philatelic language. We see these frames on Mandate stamps all the time but few of us know to call them Marginal Rule lines (or Jubilee Lines all around them).

I may have solved my own mystery with some archived articles and other materials, so I'm sharing it for reactions and general knowledge:

I don't like relying on a compilation known as the "Crown Agents Requisitions Books" of the Mandate because it's order listings are incomplete and erronious conclusions have been drawn from the orders listed, but its value lies with the comments that accompany some of the orders.

It seems the stamps above may be leftover production from booklets, unusable for them because of their placement in the sheets from which the booklets were produced.

This is a sample listing of booklet orders - note the comments about the excess stamps being included in the shipment:



The next two images are enactments of how booklet sheets would be split up - and what portions would be leftover (one from Aaron Kaplan and the other from Arthur Hochheiser):






I had this possible explanation up my sleeve when I posted my question, but withheld it because of a few problems: a) the 8m stamp on the top cover is not known as having been produced in booklet form; b) the 10m postmarked Ramallah 1942 would postdate the last known period booklets were produced (1940); c) the stamps with the selvedge on the right don't match the booklet sheet examples above; and d) the bottom-displayed 5m stamp with the Marginal Rule line next to it doesn't match the pattern of the other examples.

Nevertheless, perhaps I've found an explanation for a few of the stamps... any reactions?
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Edited by gum side - 06/24/2021 04:54 am
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Posted 06/24/2021   04:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
any reactions?

Only that I think you may have solved it.

I belong to the ONEPS society
Ottoman and Near East Philatelic Society

They often post Palestinian information in their Journals which are downloadable I think.
You may wish to pursue, you seem to like in-depth research, esp if you are a collector of that region.

Cannot say I have seen any Booklet monographs.

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