Does Philately Have More 'Self Interest' Than Other Hobbies?

A question that I have been asking myself a lot lately; does our hobby have more 'self-interest' than other hobbies and I think the answer may be 'yes'.

For example, I have long been involved with the antique car collector hobby and the amount of information sharing is far greater than I find in this hobby.

Assumptions - I believe that groups of people are typically the same; with enough people in a group you will find short and tall folks, heavy and thin folks, friendly and not so friendly folks. So I assume that no group of people has a monopoly of 'self-interest' over another group and in general I would not expect to find that information sharing is more or less innate in any two groups of humans.

But from my observations, there is indeed a information sharing delta between stamps collectors and car collectors. The folks in car the old car collecting circles openly and freely share information whether it be how to troubleshoot and fix an engine issue, find a part, or even the location of 'barn finds' with each other. Yet in philately I have had people tell me, 'I spent years learning stuff and I am not about to turn around and share it'.

I think that some of this has to do with the nature of philately vs. car collecting. Even the wealthiest car collectors do not attempt to own hundreds of cars, they have finite amount of space. It is common that if you find a new old car you want to purchase you have to sell one of cars your already own to make space. So the choice is either stick with the cars you already own for years and years or flip some cars. Cars are more complex and costly than stamps/overs and to flip cars you need a lot of relationships. This dependency on relationships is often accompanied with an increase in information sharing.

Philately has a legacy of more self-interest because we do not flip collections the way car collector flip cars. We are more likely to hold our collections for long periods of time, many times our entire life, and this supports less information sharing.

Another factor in information sharing is competition. Car collectors compete with each other at car shows and the number of cars shows each year far exceed (by an order of magnitude) the number of philatelic shows. It would be a competitive advantage to NOT help a fellow car collector if you wanted to win at car shows. Yet if you ever breakdown on the way to a car show, you will find that the majority of other car collectors will stop and offer advice, tools, parts and labor.

But in philately I find that competition for material is an inhibiter to information sharing. If I do not share information on which HPO covers are extremely rare, I will pay less for on when I find it. Less information sharing means less competition from other collectors and a lower likelihood that a dealer will price it higher. So I may choose to not share information freely.

I would be interested in hearing what others think about information sharing in our hobby. Does our hobby have less information sharing then your other hobbies? How does the lack of information sharing impact the overall health of a hobby? Is this one of the reasons our hobby has been so slow to adapt to the internet?
Don

Not sure where I stand on your prompt, yet, Don, but the plethora of outlets for information about stamps and covers is amazing - resources in print as well as online; all the pod/video casts before and ramped up during Covid says that collectors certainly want to talk about stamps. Your very own creation has become a center of tremendously valuable information about all things philatelic.

And while I've contributed to some of the dialogs on this site related to specific auctions, I long for the opportunity to talk with people (as opposed to exchange static text messages) regarding specific auctions, lots, etc. While we might be in competition for some specific lots, I think we (me and whomever) would benefit from some exchanges.

I'll add yet another dimension to it, and say that I've met plenty of people who have unpublished information - whether derived themselves, or learned/acquired from others.

For the subset of those who choose not to share it publicly, I find that very often, once they realize one is serious (me, for example) about that subject - they frequently open up and are happy to share freely within a closed group of people. This is not uncommon. So my point is, the information is not always as closed off as one might think. To the casual by-passer, maybe, but not necessarily to someone who is as embedded as they are. Often this level of information is obtuse and complex, so the casual by-passer might not even know or care that its not available, but the more advanced philatelist, who does care, would have access potentially is my point.

Why withhold information at all? In the pre-internet era, information was very often monetized, and was highly valuable even if not monetized. Now, in the so-called "information-age", where everything is on the internet at a click, it does change this paradigm somewhat. Information still does have value, but there is of course, a push to make everything worthwhile accessible. Information can also gain status for someone through publication as well.

The desire to have everything online is there and can be highly useful, but I'll close with some simple questions.

To the person who literally spent his/her life - decades, compiling this information - lets say, from his/her personal collection, which has been hidden away from the world prior to their passing - since they held that material for so long, are they obliged to publish what they learned from it?

Is this somehow different from someone who accumulates a large stamp collection and organizes it nicely, thus holding those stamps off of the market for decades, but does not necessarily have any new knowledge gained from it to pass on?

I'm not offering my opinion(s) in this post, but, rather, making somewhat rhetorical statements to stimulate discussion and help organize my own thoughts.

Stamp collecting is usually a solo activity. A single person could assemble a nice collection. Many of us deal mostly online or by mail for the things we need. In my experience, car guys are more collaborative. I have a friend that is restoring an old car and when we talk about it he always has stories about traveling to hunt down parts or craftsmen to do body work, paint, upholstery, dashboard restoration, and on and on. Before he is done I expect he will have dealt with a dozen or more people, usually face to face. Then there is the opportunity to show it off at car shows or cruise nights. And even people with little interest in cars will recognize and appreciate a nice old car. Stamp collectors might share their acquisitions with a few friends or at a stamp club, but no passerby is going to say "nice stamps".

I do appreciate, and am frequently in awe of, the knowledge that is shared here on a daily basis. But this board is a self selected group who are willing to share their time, knowledge and opinions. I would be happy to offer my knowledge and experience (limited as it is) to anyone who asked. But I am not writing a book or strategizing my next big dollar auction purchase. Any advice I was to offer would be worth at least what you paid for it. It would be free.

I'll go one further RXC. I think that stamp collecting, in particular, lends itself much more-so to introverts, then car collecting (a more extrovert) hobby. Look at my awesome late-model shiny convertible in the driveway!
Collecting stamps isn't super fashionable. In "coolness" circles it's considered by the masses below baseball cards, comics, maybe even coins if I one were to rank them by social circle awareness. As such, you start off with a heterogenous collector pool, whom I believe to be mostly made up of grumpy old white dudes and a smaller contigency of everybody else.

This bifurcation leads to a perception problem held by the most that hobbyists are self-centered or egotists. It starts at the top of the market. Z-Grill. Only one person can have it. So you have rich folk fighting for trophies. This becomes the perception as nothing is more prominent than Siegel Sales. As it trickles down into lower market items, a buyer vs seller information edge is paramount. It feels that if there is an edge to the info, it won't be shared. And if it does, it feels begrudging. The new class of collectors is more social, I think, and create online content and publish. This is much more in their nature because their whole lives have been published online through social media and giving their info away through Alexa. They believe in community sharing fundamentally, and use things like google sheets, and the cloud, instead of Microsoft Excel or just keeping their photos to themself on their local hard drive.

On a different note, my biggest problem with sharing is that few people know how to properly share it or care about the channels to do so. Books go out of print. People need to publish electronically too. Web sites/Private DBs are inherently bad, as they tend to disappear when a maintainer dies or stops paying the ISP. So far the only sites I know of capable of long term storage are "git" software developer sites, like github/gitlab. They solve the problem by putting the content into a distributable model that outlives the person and allows for anyone to fork and continue on the legacy. But they're not really ripe for people who aren't technically focused. I believe statically created websites should all reside with the content backed in git. I still believe there is a market out there for long term important storage of accessible content that hasn't been tapped.

Me personally I am always open to sharing, I'll tell you what I want to buy/sell , what's in my collection, details about any stamps I know about. I just couldn't care less who gets the info. I don't have some secret knowledge about hidden watermarks or rare plate numbers I use to screw people out of their holdings. Just not who I am. It's not a secret society. It's just stamps and I love them.

I get what is being said but at the same time I have to say I find it easy to get a stamp collector to open up and talk about his collection and collecting in great detail once they get going. Once they see real interest.

There are a number of things that contribute to a lack of openness right away.
- One could be some expectation of ridicule due to a stigma of being passe, old fashioned or out of date hobby of old men. While there may be some truth to the old men part, not entirely old or men...
- This really tends to be a more of a solitary hobby.
- Another may be the tendency to guard a valuable collection as in the less people know the more unlikely I'll be to have a security risk.
- Another maybe that stamp collectors I know also tend to be a little more introverted, although there are exceptions.
- There is also the possibility of being afraid that they made a foolish purchase or would be bettered by someone else...

I think forums like this are a good example that collectors are willing to or are increasingly willing to share.

But hey, these are all edumacated-guestimates with heavy supposition.

As for not publishing. That takes work, sometimes a lot of work and if it's not something you enjoy or know how to, than it tends not to get done. That can also be a time consumption issue.

Being a motor head (big block ford guy) from days long gone by, I can agree that even competitors at car shows tend to like talking about and helping each other out, again there are exceptions. One of my favorite GT40 era racing photos is of Ken Miles greeting the competing teams as they entered the track waving intently with but one finger raised and a big smile. I've had that photo hanging in my garage since the late 70's.

Funny you should say that.

The last 10 years or so have seen a plethora of information brought into the public realm, solely because of the internet.

Before that, getting highly detailed information was difficult (and often quite expensive, given books were printed in very limited numbers, usually decades ago), and at times felt like it was kept closer to the collective chest than the goings on of the most private of secret societies.

Given the immense amount of knowledge in our hobby, no single person can know even 1% of it in minute detail.

It must look quite strange from the outside looking in!

I assume that the real focus of this topic is on information and not what stamps one collects and information can equal power. You have knowledge others do not and that gives you an edge, it gives you power. If you find a honey hole you guard it tenaciously. If you know something others do not you keep it tucked away in reserve. That being said there is so much information out there in places all over the map but I think specifically of the APRL. What a treasure trove. How much of it is digitized?

You can see the information access problem all of the time on this forum especially when the issue of a potential forgery/fake/counterfeit arises. It is always a grind to get quick, detailed and solid answers. In most part because the resources are scattered far and wide and very difficult to access if you can access them at all.

The hobby really needs a clearing house, an entity to be the tip of the spear. I used to think that the APS could be that leader but I am not so certain any more. The expertizing bodies have enormous reference resources but hold it as proprietary to my knowledge. Deep pocketed collectors such as Gross and others donate tens of millions to the Smithsonian and get a plaque when perhaps that endowment would be better served to create that clearing house. The legacy institutions have not risen to the information technology challenge. Why is that?

Siegel to my mind is a positive example of what things could be like. Power Search is an invaluable resource and the research that they provide with their sales descriptions can be very scholarly and available to all on the internet.

We need one main hub where all individuals, companies, non-profits, organizations (clubs/forums), educational institutions, government and quasi-governmental bodies and other interested parties place their information resources to be accessed in a user friendly manner at will.

Imagine a WW Stamp Smarter with a multi-million dollar budget and more than one Don.

Interesting topic. I am part of a few other crowds, including paddlers. When it comes to boats (kayaks, SUP and canoes), gear and equipment, people seem to be very helpful at giving advice on specific brands and products. Many are happy to say that they have 4 or 5 different paddles, and this is why they like this one the best, etc. Like stamp collectors though, there can be snobs who insist that your $300 Pelican kayak is a toy compared to their $4000 salt water dream machine. Paddlers (can) have a definite foe, which is motor boat operators who may not respect everyone else on the water. Stamp collectors have to deal with crooks, fakes and dreamers as we all know. When it comes to the best places to paddle, the shiftly little poker game starts. I'm not going to tell just anyone the best places to paddle. The spots that actually have a washroom and good parking can be over run by fisherman. I'm not going to tell you where I get my best stamps either. General knowledge is best shared, just to keep people from making the same dumb mistakes. So, there a number of things that can make a hobby or past time a 'self interest' one. Sometimes just getting a little peace and quiet on your own.

Why not a poll, Don?

I would agree with Bobby de La Rue, from where I stand.
I rarely encounter resistance to sharing information,
I have had a few bad ones, in 20 years or so
Once when I visited the WA Philatelic society, to look through their Library, the fellow in charge that day, followed me around, breathing down my neck.
I felt very uncomfortable
I promptly left and never went back.

Consideration.
Antique Car Collecting information is generally not copyrighted.
Lots of Philatelic information is.

Interesting thread. In my experience when money is involved information is valued more than community. People are generally speaking, less willing to share if information connotates power, or if information can be monetized. I think you are correct Don, excepting this community mostly, stamp collectors tend to have more self interest. The good thing about that is that this for me is just a hobby, I am not invested enough to worry about apparent self interest although I note it. For others well......
Opinions are good if they make you think. Especially opinion you disagree with as they challenge your thought, They make you examine your idea. "The unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates
Regards m

Yes, it is often a "solo" hobby.

Yes, I have some specialty lists I have developed which help me identify things I want to buy or avoid. These lists simultaneously cost me money and save me money. They are not in a publishable form, but the resulting accumulation of items likely will be publishable some day.

I rejoice that the published literature glass is half full rather than lamenting the empty half. I heard several decades ago that philately has the most voluminous literature of any hobby. So there has been a LOT of publishing. Some of it is hard to access due to age, publication quantities and copyrights. There is no free lunch for information as some seem to expect. I often see responses along the lines of "someone (else) should do it". Well, why not each of us? Donate to the APRL, assign your copyrights to public domain, etc. We are each part of the problem, and can each be part of the solution through ur time, talent, and treasure.

That said, there are true gaps in the literature. There are many areas which have not been explored fully or written about, particularly in the realm of postal history: listings of cancels, etc.

There has been a thread here in the past year about railroad markings with employee names often found on forms and special delivery/registered mail. I know of no published lists of these cancels, nor of anybody with large collections of these. Might be an interesting crowd source project?

Do I have covers containing "use data" which will never get published by me? Machine cancels from the 1960s? Boxes of pointing hand markings from the 1990s? Sure. I don't have time to analyse thousands of post-WWII mail pieces with minor peripheral interest to me. Come over and catalog it. The best I can do is preserve it for the next generation, while working on the areas with stronger interest to me. There is a limit to the time I have available for philately.

More philosophically, not every collector is drawn to be an author, nor an exhibitor, nor a speaker at a club meeting, or necessarily good at organizing their philatelic items to share with fellow collectors, but hopefully each will be a good custodian of the material they own for their generation and find some way to share their knowledge in a permanent way.

I agree that philately tends to be more of an introvert hobby than, say, car collecting. You can see collector cars (rarely, but it happens) out on the road, and just about everybody turns to look. Plus, car shows (the handful that I have been to, anyway) tend to be outside for anyone driving by to see. When was the last time you saw someone showing off their stamp collection out in the general public?

As for Self Interest, I suspect that is a symptom rather than the disease - very generally, stamp collectors are introverts, so getting out there and waving your knowledge around could understandably make one quite uncomfortable. There is also a dichotomy between dealers and collectors - it is in the financial best interest of dealers to keep their cards close to the vest. Also, since dealers are out and about on a daily basis in the philatelic world, they are more likely to hear the juicy tidbits or who's got what, or who's thinking of liquidating.

I agree that Siegel's has done a lot to make info available. I wish more stamp firms would follow their lead. Some of the leading organizations could certainly stand to put more of their info online - access to cert information (PF does well, but others could do better), better access to digitized works, or even digitizing archives would be a good start.

ETA: I forgot to say - SCF is a great step to getting info out there, and to allow collectors to communicate their knowledge or to find new knowledge. So..... to SCF.

I just think dynamic is different. I was very big into auto detailing and shows. There was always discussion on best products and techniques. In the car shows I attended, I did not see a lot of substantive discussion about the cars themselves. Cars

Don

The main reason I am involved with the online catalogue I am involved with is exactly to share information with collectors who might not have access to information contained in hard copy publications. From regional specialized catalogues to thousands of monographs written over the century and more that the hobby has existed, there is so much information regarding varieties that are not covered or poorly covered by any one of the Big 4 catalogues separately that in reality, relying on only one of the Big 4 gives very incomplete, cursory overviews regarding stamp issues.