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Helvetia 25˘ Blue 12 X 11 1/2 Perf

 
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Pillar Of The Community
721 Posts
Posted 11/07/2021   1:25 pm  Show Profile Check wheelman's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add wheelman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have exhausted my resources on this. There are plenty of 11 1/2 X 12 but I triple checked and it is 12 X 11 1/2. Once again I am certain I'm missing something simple.
Thanks for helping.
Paul

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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3744 Posts
Posted 11/07/2021   2:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It could be perf 11.75 (Zumstein).
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Lebanon
51 Posts
Posted 11/07/2021   3:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mazdoc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

This is quite interesting.
Would it be possible to share an image with the perforation gauge?
Also, are you sure you're measuring the horizontal side first?
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Pillar Of The Community
721 Posts
Posted 11/07/2021   4:21 pm  Show Profile Check wheelman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheelman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think you are correct at 11.75, especially blown up, but it fits 12, at least on the horizontal, better than the 11.75. What do you think? So again a number that Scott doesn't list?


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United States
1017 Posts
Posted 11/07/2021   11:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott is notorious for getting the perfs on these Switzerland issues wrong. Try Michel for better coverage.
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United States
3224 Posts
Posted 11/08/2021   06:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott is just rounding the gauge to the nearest half. The Classic catalog might have updated the perfs to 11.75 where appropriate.

Standing Helvetias are not like modern US discount postage with stamps from a half century earlier being used for postage. So the 1908 cancel (if genuine – why fake one on this stamp?) tells us that this stamp is from one of the last Standing Helvetia issues. IMO, even 1903 would be too early because of all the issues between that and 1908.

To further confirm that, Wheelman's stamp is the re-engraved one.


Left stamp is Scott 94a from 1901, one of the last issues using the old plates. You can see plate wear and re-engraved fixes everywhere.

Right stamp is a completely re-engraved one, Scott 112a from 1906. Scott perf 11.5, everybody else says 11.75. And it's 11.75 exactly. Scott doesn't explicitly say this is re-engraved, but the note on the stamp (112) above it applies to everything following for that design.

The re-engraved stamp has thicker letters in HELVETIA. Check. It also has larger stars than the original plates. Check. FRANCO is not as steeply angled as on the originals. Check.

Wheelman, yours doesn't look like a granite paper stamp from here so that leaves Scott 112a or 112 as the only choices.

A graduated-style gauge would confirm perf and may be much more useful generally to you at this point in your collecting life. The Scott/Linns ones are cheap, available and work great.



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Edited by hy-brasil - 11/08/2021 06:57 am
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Posted 11/08/2021   07:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Because the margins were fairly large all the way around, I didn't consider that this was reperfed. I think it is. See the scan above comparing the bottom perfs with the top. There may be camera parallax problems, but they look way different to me.

Because perfs can be important to value or just appearance, Standing Helvetias can be found reperfed often enough. Wheelman, I'm suggesting that you gauge all 4 sides and ask that you report back.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 11/08/2021 07:25 am
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 11/08/2021   10:29 am  Show Profile Check wheelman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add wheelman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is not granite and is the re-engraved version, the lines below Franco are all horizontal. On my graduated gauge the right side is a perfect 11, left side looks just shy of 11 1/4, top and bottom are definitely 11 3/4. A better set of eyes than mine confirmed the preceding.
So I'm thinking Scott 112 is the closest on type and perfs.
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United States
3224 Posts
Posted 11/08/2021   7:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, you've nailed it. Scott 112.
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558 Posts
Posted 11/14/2021   11:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sorsh to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
there's been numerous post regarding weird perforations.

remember; needles used in the perforation machines are subject to wear and tear, repairs and replacements... perforation 11.75 - could appear more as 11.50 or 12.00 in some cases.

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