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France 189 With Manuscript Surcharge

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Valued Member

Canada
238 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   3:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add mirman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Need help with this one. Has anyone come across something this?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   3:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This looks like someone's joke or similar. "3pf" and "DIENSTMARKE" are German, the latter meaning "official stamp". The Pasteur stamp dates from the mid-1920s so I it is probably too early for some kind of snarky commentary on German occupation during World War II.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
8578 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   3:45 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
We'd need a clear scan to see what's been done to it. Looks as if someone's written "Diensmarke" on it.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7239 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   4:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The two strikes through the value strongly resemble those on the 1926-7 surcharges, but the freehand scrawling on the rest of the 'overprint' eliminates any doubt that this is a homemade item.
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Valued Member
Canada
238 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   6:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mirman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry that the first scan was bad. I have rescanned it at a higher res but I believe that the problem is that whoever did this used a felt tip pen that was not very fine and the letters look rather filled in.

I appreciate everyone's input but am curious as to when and why that could have been done. Yes the hardwriting seems to be dienstmarke and the 30 was crossed out and 35 pf (?) was added on.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2025 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   6:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is that blue and red ink?
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Edited by Just_fella - 02/08/2022 6:45 pm
Valued Member
Canada
238 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   6:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mirman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The ink is all black.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2025 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   7:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A DE V
French postmark
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   7:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A French cancel on a French stamp, yes. Usually normal. That doesn't look like an "A" to me, but that's me.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2025 Posts
Posted 02/08/2022   8:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
With a German overprint and surcharge?
Even if homemade it's interesting
Learn about Saarland,
Didn't find anything useful for this.
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Edited by Just_fella - 02/08/2022 8:18 pm
Pillar Of The Community
France
2925 Posts
Posted 02/09/2022   01:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vayolene to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Paris Hotel de Ville ?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 02/09/2022   01:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
just fella, yes, with a bogus German overprint and surcharge done by felt tip pen. Am I to suppose you did not come to the conclusion that someone did this with a stamp that was already used? Learning about Saarland or Alsace-Lorraine will definitely not lead you to determine a reason for this creation as you have found.

Once again, you attempt to derail a thread for personal reasons.

vayolene, well done!
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Edited by hy-brasil - 02/09/2022 01:54 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 02/09/2022   03:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@hy-brasil

You are missing the point. All we ever learned about philately has been wrong. Everything should be re-evaluated.

Consider:
In this case, a French collaborator working for a German-controlled department in France found an old stamp in the bottom drawer of his desk, sometime between 1940 and 1945.
Since he had run out of official stamps he wrote "Dienstmarke" on the stamp so it would go through the correct channels and his important official missive would reach the correct person.

Maybe, it was used by a German official, who, personally, wrote dem Führer that the Saargebiet was German again.

It could be possible. It makes the stamp unique and very valuable.
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Edited by NSK - 02/09/2022 03:25 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2025 Posts
Posted 02/09/2022   05:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"All we ever learned about philately has been wrong."

I don't believe this to be true.

Vayolene,
As always, awesome work finding the postmark!
Some good history to the building.

Sorry for the derailment
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Edited by Just_fella - 02/09/2022 09:11 am
Valued Member
Canada
238 Posts
Posted 02/09/2022   10:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mirman to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone for your help. This got me curious about postal rates in 1926 or thereabouts since the original French stamp was issued in 1926. I have searched but not found much. Can anyone tell me if 35 pf was a valid rate back then?

I know that collecting is what we want it to be but I have a question: where would you put that stamp in your album? Germany?

Out of curiosity, how would you consider/call this stamp? Valid stamp, bogus, forgery etc.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2025 Posts
Posted 02/10/2022   08:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Just_fella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
How do you see this?

It's been said it's bogus overprint/surcharge on genuine stamp.
(This from very knowledgeable people, should take there advice)

Or could be more interesting.
(From this side of the screen, we all see something different)

If your looking to throw darts, I'd join for a bit.





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