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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6530 Posts |
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I have two stamps the seller claims are unmounted (never hinged) mint. Both show a disturbance. It looks like this is under the gum. But is this a natural unevenness of the paper or were these stamps hinged? Stamp 1: top left corner (the hinge remnant in the margin is obvious)  Stamp 1 detail edit: added a sharper image   Stamp 2 top centre  Stamp 2 detail  |
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| Edited by NSK - 03/25/2022 1:57 pm |
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Bedrock Of The Community
12569 Posts |
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Hard to render a substantive opinion on gum using scans but my first thought would be gum wrinkles. |
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1462 Posts |
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Yes, looks like gum creases/cracking. This kind of thing should be disclosed by a seller in their item listing IMO. Buyers reasonably expect gum on never hinged mint to be without flaws, unless indicated. |
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts |
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Gum cracking, hinged and creased at the perforations.
Acceptable to me as a WW collector,
BUT far from the criteria of "Mint" postage stamp.
There was a discussion recently, as to a stamp being mint, if hinged on the selvedge. I think the consensus was in the negative.
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Bedrock Of The Community
12569 Posts |
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It depends upon the Country whether or not gum wrinkles, streaky gum, crackly (dried) gum is a problem or not. If you collect Russia up until the early to middle 1930's you understand that these gum conditions are to be expected at times in many cases and in no way disqualify the designation of mint. Good luck if you expect perfect gum because they were not produced with perfect gum or gum that ages well.
Mint never hinged and "perfect" are not mutual depending upon the stamp.
Avoid generalizations. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7075 Posts |
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I think at least one of those photos goes beyond gum creases, to paper creases. I bet, "in person" those are visible from the front. Personally, I can take "gum bends" or "gum creases" if I can't see them from the front (keeping in mind that I won't pay an extra cent for anything related to the condition of the back...for better or worse, I won't pay a MNH premium).
I can't see any way that the MNH fetishists could be happy here. |
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| Edited by Cjd - 03/25/2022 9:39 pm |
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Bedrock Of The Community
12569 Posts |
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Gum wrinkles/creases and paper wrinkles/creases are interrelated. The severity of the gum wrinkling drives how badly the paper is affected. The gum and paper are bonded so it is difficult to have one issue without the other. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7075 Posts |
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Don't you see gum bends that aren't visible from the front all the time? Are we using different words for the same concept? |
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Bedrock Of The Community
12569 Posts |
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A bend is not a crease. A gum wrinkle has a sharp amplitude, and a bend is a bend is a bend. Two different animals. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7075 Posts |
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What matters to me is what you can see from the front. In this post, what I see from the back is almost certainly visible from the front. |
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Valued Member
Canada
395 Posts |
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Have you compared these stamps to the lower values?
Checking over my examples of this set, most (except for the 50 cent) have a moderately glossy gum with a distinct horizontal striped pattern. I would think that it would be hard to reproduce this pattern when regumming, but I'm no expert.
That said, there does seem to be a small crease in the 250 cent, and the 500 cent has perforation issues at the top.
Jan |
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6530 Posts |
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The lower values are close to perfect. This is one thing that bugs me. The two 'best' values are affected only. Also, this lot came with the coil strips, including the strips of three available from philatelic counters. The top one of those has split perforations. So, the lot is going back. This has all the signs of having been an attempt to mislead. If you look very closely, the 250 cent stamp crease is visible from the front. It coincides with the hairlin-like interruption in the top right corner of the stamp. This, actually may be pre-printing. These are wartime printings and paper quality was not optimal. The hinge in the selvedge does not bother me. You can detach it if you do not like it and then you are left with a never hinged mint stamp.  the front of the 500 cent stamp is not so clear-cut. I see a few very light indents that may coincide with the disturbance on the back. But there also are clear disturbances on the back that do not show on the front. I still have the suspicion this was hinged and re-gummed. The gum, in natural lighting conditions, looks shiny and even. I have other sets that have very little value where some stamps have streaky and others shiny gum, or matt and shiny gum. The disturbance gives the impression of being just in the paper.  |
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Bedrock Of The Community
12569 Posts |
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To close out the discussion re wrinkles, bends and creases here is the criteria the PSE uses. It references US stamps and flat plate printing but obviously it is applicable to all stamps. Quote:
Natural Gum Bends, Creases or Wrinkles
On flat plate printed U.S. stamps the gumming process sometimes caused gum bends, creases or wrinkles. Gum bends, creases and wrinkles are all in the same family being commonly used terms for increasingly severe distortions of the gum and paper.
A gum bend is just that, the paper and gum have a troughlike bend, usually in a diagonal rather than a vertical or horizontal direction. When the stamp is immersed in lighter or watermark fluid there will be no dark line along the length of the bend and there may or may not be a slight white flashing as the fluid dries more quickly along the bend. While collectors prefer stamps without gum bends, if there is only one and it is minor the value will not be significantly affected. PSE calls gum bends only if there are two or more or if the one is at the borderline between a bend and a crease.
A gum crease will dip as a dark line in the fluid and will flash white as the fluid dries. Such occurs because the paper fibers become creased which can be seen on the front of the stamp. A gum crease can exist on any flat plate stamp, but certain issues are more prone than others, including Scott Nos. C13-C15 and RW1-RW12. If a gum crease dips dark and flashes over a significant length PSE will call it and will lower the stamp's soundness grade. This is especially so if there are multiple gum creases which sometimes occur. Like gum bends, gum creases often occur in diagonal directions.
Gum wrinkles are in the same family, but they are slightly different than gum bends or creases. A gum wrinkle can occur anywhere on a stamp, can be of any length and commonly does not extend in a straight line. If one is severe enough to mention on a certificate it will also dip as a dark line and flash white as the fluid dries. Like its close relative the gum crease, a significant gum wrinkle will affect the paper and can be seen on the front of the stamp. |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
764 Posts |
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So much attention is being paid to the back of the stamp that no one seems to have noticed that the 500-cent stamp has a short perf. That would be dealbreaker for me. |
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts |
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I think we all noticed it, I took it as a "bent perf"
The scan image was not clear enough.
It was not part of the poster's question.
The "deal maker" for me, includes a variety of attentions,
price vis-a-vis my opinion of scarcity, how long I have been looking,
How badly I want it.
A short perf on a stamp that is say 10% of CV, is fine by me.
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
8582 Posts |
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If I took all the stamps with short perforations out of my collection, it would be sadly slimmed down. I once acquired this overprinted Dutch set, all with stamp-edging, in a large box lot. Sadly, poor storage had left them with toning, foxing and gum loss. |
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Replies: 16 / Views: 2,322 |
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Posted 03/25/2022 10:32 am
