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Italian Parcel Post Question

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Valued Member
Canada
378 Posts
Posted 05/06/2010   7:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Tony Vella to your friends list Get a Link to this Message


The stamps in the top row were originally issued in the 1947-1954 period and show an imprint at the bottom of both halves. The same design was issued in the 1955-59 period without the imprint.

The three halves in the bottom row do not have an imprint but Scott does not list them among the no-imprint issues; it only lists them among the imprint issues. Am I missing something here? Won't be the first time.

Thanks in advance for any explanation.
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Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2027 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   01:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jubilee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The top pair was issued in 1973 (SG P1347). The bottom singles were issued in 1947 (SG P689, P690 and P692)

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Valued Member
United States
91 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   03:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add halflizard to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
According to the editors of Scott, the prices are for a connected pair of these stamps. How do the editors of other competing catalogues deal with this point? Am I permitted to collect seaparated stamps or will I be laughed at if I ever try to sell my collection?
Lizardly,
halflizard

I can't remember the slogan I was just going to start pecking out on the keyboard so I'll have to use a different one. A fisherman will tell you that a worm in the hand is never enough.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2027 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   03:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jubilee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As these are all minimal value stamp,s I don't think they will make or break your collection.

The issue of pairs has been discussed before. The stamps were designed to be separated prior to use (hence the 1a Parte and 2a Parte on the stamps). In theory at least, a joined, used, pair shouldn't exist!
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   04:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

If I may be permitted to disagree,
I always had that same theory, which fell into the assumption
the block of 4 I had cancelled followed the corollory
that they then must be CTO's

This was clarified in the negative by a member (Tony IIRC)
of rcsd, who showed me this genuine block of 4 cancelled on card.


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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2027 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   04:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jubilee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's a very interesting item, although definitely not correct usage. However, it proves that they exist!

One part was supposed to go on the item being sent, the other part on the receipt.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   05:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'll dig around the virtual shoebox, and see if I can
get Tony's explanation, I'll post back if I locate it.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2027 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   05:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jubilee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent, I like learnin' stuff.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   09:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The thread was quite long, and I have edited out
sundry bits. So I hope you dont take parts out of context.
Take what you will, that is appropriate from the discussion.
Tony was commenting on CTO and favour cancellations as well.
Anyhow I hope it is of some interest.

They were first issued with a winged wheel watermark in 1946
They were still in use 30 years later - with stars watermark.
The PVA gum variety was issued between 1974 and 1976.
Multiples like this were probably favour cancelled, and is the way
Italian collectors collect these issues - the halves have significantly
less value.
To my mind favour cancelling is quite different from CTO material,
where obsolete stamps are cancelled and sold below face.
During the period after the Italians surrendered during WW2 many
pairs of parcel stamps were used on cover because of a shortage of regular
definitive postage issues. However, this clearly did not occur in this case.
It is true that at most periods, the normal use of the parcel
stamps involves the right-hand half being separated and kept on the receipt.
Thus used pairs are favour cancelled, meaning nothing went through the
post paid for by the stamps, which come under the CTO heading as far as SG is
concerned.
However, as used pairs are the Italian way of collecting them, they quote
prices for them.
Sassone has started to quote prices for used right-hand halves in pre-war issues,
with the comment that left-hand used halves are a given multiple (usually twice)
of the right.
No, but then parcel stamps did not go ON the parcel anyway.
They went on what is called a Parcel Card (or Bollettino per la spedizione
in Italian)
I cannot explain WHY the Italians prefer these stamps used in pairs, but
they do. I have pairs where possible, and singles where not, simply because
they have better eventual resale value.
They are best collected on parcel card, and that is indeed tricky.

for an interesting example, not short of the odd postmark!
What are really scarce are the first issue of parcel stamps
actually still on their parcel card, as seen in

Sassone gives the used stamp as 18 euros, but 2500 euros on card!
> I thought the idea of the other half was that it went in
> the receipt book (or accounts book). Did Italy give up
> this practice?
Seems like it. I have had an offer to buy several items which
show the same characteristics - relatively recent forms of the
parcel card with entire pairs tied with a cancel. In some
cases these are overseas cards (like the Swiss example
I posted), and I suspect that it was a sort of 'postage due'
use.

This is the block that started the discussion, and what I thought were CTO, but now described as possibly favour cancelled.



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Edited by rod222 - 05/07/2010 09:51 am
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2027 Posts
Posted 05/07/2010   09:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jubilee to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Spot on. Used, but definitely not for the purpose they were designed for. Thanks for the info Rod.
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Valued Member
Italy
28 Posts
Posted 05/31/2010   05:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thiswas to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,
I think that Italian stamps CTO don't exist.
The favour cancellations exist only for first days issues or for stamps that have a higher value used and it's not this the case.
I don't know why in my country (Italy :-) ) collectors prefer these stamps used in pair. Maybe 'cos are less common.
Regards.
Fabio
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 05/31/2010   10:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Fabio,
if you ever come across any information on Corrado Mezzana
I would love to read about him.
One of the best stamp designers ever imho.
I adore his stamps.

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Valued Member
Italy
28 Posts
Posted 05/31/2010   12:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thiswas to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rod222, Corrado Mezzana was an artist, not only a stamp designer. There is some website dedicated to him, but I think I can not link it :-(
Anyway, if you look for "corrado mezzana" on google.it... is the first result.
Ask me for translation if you don't understand something...
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Pillar Of The Community
USA
2736 Posts
Posted 05/31/2010   4:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bobgggg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
His stamps

Italy + Colonies

1931 Bimillenario della nascita di Virgilio (10 disegni)
1932 Società Nazionale Dante Alighieri (2 disegni)
1932 Cinquantenario della morte di Garibaldi (1 disegno)
1932 X Annuale del Fascismo (20 disegni)
1933 Crociera Zeppelin, Italia (6 disegni)
1933 Crociera Zeppelin Tripolitania (3 disegni)
1933 Anno Santo (4 disegni)
1933 Crociera Nord Atlantica (6 disegni)
1934 Decennale dell'annessione di Fiume (11 disegni)
1935 Istituzione M.V.S.N. (5 disegni)
1937 Bimillenario Augusteo (15 disegni)
1937 Bimillenario Augusteo Colonie (3 disegni)
1938 Grandi Italiani (10 disegni)
1939 Africa Orientale, Italiana (1 disegno)
1941 Bimillenario di Tito Livio (2 disegni)
1941 Asse Roma - Berlino (1 disegno)
1942 III centenario della morte di G. Galilei (4 disegni)
1946 Repubbliche italiane (8 soggetti da fotografie)
1948 VI Centenario dalla nascita di S. Caterina (6 disegni)
1948 I Centenario del Risorgimento Italiano (13 soggetti da stampe)
1949 I Centenario delta Repubblica Romana (1 disegno)
1950 Anno Santo (1 disegno)
1950 Conferenza Europea del tabacco (3 disegni)
1950 Italia al lavoro (19 disegni)
1951 XXIX Fiera di Milano (1 disegno)
1952 XXX Fiera di Milano (1 disegno)
1952 Centenario dei primi francobolli di Modena e Parma (1 disegno)
1952 Fiera di Trieste (1 disegno)
1952 Cardinal Massaia. (1 disegno)
1952 I.C.A.O. Prima Conferenza di diritto aeronautico privato (1
disegno)


Vatican

1936 Esposizione Mondiale della stampa cattolica (4 disegni)
1938 Posta aerea (4 disegni)
1938 Congresso internazionale di archeologia cristiana (2 disegni)
1940 Serie Pio XII (2 disegni)
1940 Incoronazione di Pio XII (1 disegno)
1943 Giubileo Episcopale (1 disegno)
1944 IV Centenario della Pontificia Accademia dei Virtuosi al Pantheon
(4 disegni)
1944 II nuova serie Pio XII (2 disegni uguali a quelli della serie
1940)
1945 Segnatasse (1 disegno)
1946 Concilio di Trento (14 di-segni)
1947 Posta Aerea (3 disegni)
1948 Posta Aerea (1 disegno)
1948 Basiliche romane (12 soggetti da stampe ; 1 disegno)
1950 Arino Santo (2 disegni).1950. I centenario della Guardia Palatina
(1 disegno)
1951 Proclamazione del dogma dell'Assunzione di Maria SS.ma (2
disegni)
1951 Beato Pio X Papa (2 disegni)
1951 XV Centenario del Concilio di Calcedonia (2 disegni)
1951 VIII Centenario del Decreto di Graziano (1 disegno)
1952 I Centenario del Francobollo Pontificio (1 disegno)
1953 I papi e la Basilica di S. Pietro (10 disegni)
Top


San Marino

1946 Omaggio a Roosevelt (6 disegni)


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A Philatelic mind
is a terrible thing to waste
Valued Member
Canada
378 Posts
Posted 05/31/2010   6:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tony Vella to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Off-topic for Fabio:

Old Rod bringing up Corrado Mezzano rung a bell but I just couldn't place it. And then I remembered.

In 1987 our Department of National Revenue was having an Pan-American conference on income tax. All the Latin American countries sent representatives and we had more than enough Spanish and Portuguese translators and interpreters on hand. However, our Deputy Minister was asked if Italy would be allowed to send "observers" and we said that we would be happy to oblige except that Italy sent six persons and at the time I was the only head-office employee of the department who spoke Italian. So we asked the local Italian Embassy to lend us an extra interpreter/translator and they sent us a Massimo Mezzano, about 35 years old, who was originally from somewhere just outside of Rome. And Rod's mention of the Roman Corrado Mezzano brought Massimo to mind after so many years, soooo many years ... tutta la legna è diventata cenere ....

Thanks for the memories, Rod.
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Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Valued Member
Italy
28 Posts
Posted 05/31/2010   7:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add thiswas to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting, Tony, thanx for your "tale". Are you from Canada? What a wonderful place. I've been there on honey moon 7 years ago. I was in Montreal, Quebec City, St. Andrews, and some other place. Great place and great people.
Regards.
Fabio
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