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British South Africa Company 1-D (1910 – 1916) "Od" Flaw

 
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Valued Member

Finland
59 Posts
Posted 02/24/2023   02:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Jarmo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
SACC has three varieties for this stamp: all different red shades. Which one is it?

The flaw can be seen in the broken line below O and D.

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Valued Member
United Kingdom
25 Posts
Posted 02/24/2023   7:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Old Marvel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Shades are notoriously difficult to identify for all sorts of reasons. Only sure way is to compare with a reference collection. Shade may have changed over the years - sunlight, damp, pollution etc.

Copying process, like posting it here, will also alter the shade that you see.
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Pillar Of The Community
Israel
1223 Posts
Posted 02/25/2023   2:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob Roy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If I'm not mistaken, the 3 varieties have different perforations: 13.5, 14, 15. Can this help identify the stamp?

correction: There are 6 varieties, SG numbers 123, 124, 125, 170, 170b, 183, with the above perf.
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Edited by Rob Roy - 02/25/2023 2:45 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
7076 Posts
Posted 02/25/2023   3:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What does SACC say about the flaw? It's not listed as a plate variety in Gibbons or Five Reigns.

Is yours perf 15?
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Valued Member
Finland
59 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   02:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jarmo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is 14. So in SACC it is 123a, 124a or 125a depending on the shade. 123, 124 and 125 are normal stamps (no flaw).

SACC shows the flaw as this.

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7076 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   10:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not going to pretend we can positively i.d. your shade, but I can tell you that Gibbons has also picked three choices out of the myriad shades: bright carmine, carmine-lake and rose-red. R.M. Gibbs adds rosine as a fourth choice. I'm not in the same place as my Five Reigns right now, but I believe they settled on five color choices (though possibly not in all perf varieties - I'm long past being able to remember that without looking it up). If they have another 14 option, I'll add it in later.

I'm sure SACC mentions this, but I'll put it here for anyone else reading along that doesn't have access to specialized materials - you have to (should) measure the perfs on all sides, because: (i) there are listed compound-perf varieties; and (ii) Gibbons has dropped from their listings stamps measured 14 or 15 on one side only, or on two adjacent sides. They don't say why they dropped them, so I suspect they lacked information or supply; they don't say that they were "clandestine" in origin.
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Valued Member
Finland
59 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   11:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jarmo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SACC shades: bright carmine, carmine-lake, rose red.

Earlier I measured only one side. Now when every side measured they all are between 14 and 14.25.
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Pillar Of The Community
6331 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   11:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SACC
Please define abbreviations/acronyms when first using them
The majority of readers will have no idea what it means.
Thanks
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Edited by John Becker - 02/26/2023 11:16 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
7076 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   11:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The bright carmine is listed as aniline, for what it's worth. Does SACC agree that the OD flaw is found at positions 71 through 75 (out of 100)? Any others?
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   11:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
After Googling.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7076 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   11:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I found one fairly priced, with rather expensive shipping, so now to find one with reasonable shipping. Thanks for the heads up.
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Valued Member
Canada
437 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   3:45 pm  Show Profile Check clivel's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add clivel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
SACC shades: bright carmine, carmine-lake, rose red.
Different scanners and monitors have different colour profiles making it more or less impossible for anyone to look at your image on their screen and try to guess what colour it is.

Without having reference stamps to compare against, about the only fairly reliable way is to use something like the Stanley Gibbons Colour Key. And even with the colour key, I find it can be difficult.

Clive
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
25 Posts
Posted 02/26/2023   7:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Old Marvel to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
about the only fairly reliable way is to use something like the Stanley Gibbons Colour Key. And even with the colour key, I find it can be difficult


The problem with the colour key lies in its being printed in solid blocks of colour.

It only really has a chance of working if you have a solid block of colour on the stamp somewhere.

But. What are apparently solid blocks of colour on stamps, are invariably not actually solid blocks at all - more like very thin layers of colour with paper weave showing through.

My colour key is 40 years old. They may have since undergone several improvements?
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Valued Member
Finland
59 Posts
Posted 02/27/2023   01:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jarmo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No OD flow position info in SACC. I have the 26th edition (2002/03), so it could be in the later editions...

Also a person's colour vision can vary from poor to good, so it is quite a subjective experience what a colour (shade) looks like to someone.
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Netherlands
6530 Posts
Posted 02/27/2023   04:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The problem with the colour key lies in its being printed in solid blocks of colour.

It only really has a chance of working if you have a solid block of colour on the stamp somewhere.

But. What are apparently solid blocks of colour on stamps, are invariably not actually solid blocks at all - more like very thin layers of colour with paper weave showing through.

My colour key is 40 years old. They may have since undergone several improvements?


Valid comment.

A 40-year colour key may not be too reliable. Also, if you compare the Stanley Gibbons Commonwealth and Stanley Gibbons Concise catalogues, you might find some stamps listed in a single colour in each that is not the same. Furthermore, take Prussian blue and you will find quite a difference within GB alone.

Each catalogue editor uses his own colour names. Compare Scott with Stanley Gibbons for Queen Victoria GB stamps.

OP keeps referring to the SACC - that rod222 shows in this thread - that may be used by Southern Africa collectors. It is questionable whether a Stanley Gibbons colour key is useful for any but Stanley Gibbons Empire/Commonwealth listings. I think the colour key is based on the Empire/Commonwealth catalogues.

That said, it appears SACC is based on SG Commonwealth. OP has posted quite a few examples where colour listings are the same and numbers are a quite close match.
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Edited by NSK - 02/27/2023 04:32 am
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