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Non-Descript But Outstanding 1959 Postage Due Cover - Which I Forgot To Buy

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Posted 03/10/2023   4:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I recently ran a thread on demurrage with the starting challenge of "what is it." That went well. Eventually I will be asking the same or similar question in this thread's long winded OP.


First the heart breaking, for me anyway, back story. This cover showed up on ebay nearly 10 days ago. I could not believe what I saw. But yesterday when it was time to bid, oops. I have been unexplainably not myself for quite sometime, months and months. I learned why Wednesday but need to remain in my semi-fogged state until next Tuesday when health repair can begin. Seems I have been fighting a huge infection which was just discovered fully by accident. Seems a tooth infection with no symptoms spread well beyond the tooth and putting me a danger. It should be fully corrected in a month or so I am told.

So while waiting to bid, I mean really bid, like three figures bid, I was taking care of some banking issues specifically reordering checks on four checking accounts with three banks. Yes things just line up that way at times. Watching the rain out my window, during a rain forecast of "buy a boat" (yes, that forecast where you are now seeing the California and Nevada flooding on the national news) I glazed over and forgot to wait and place a bid between bank #2 and bank #3 phone calls. Now while a high bidder from my first placeholder bid, I was over-topped with a winning bid of $12.51 plus shipping. Now if that buyer knows what they have I promise you, they have not yet paid for it as they are still jumping up and down in pure joy for winning it especially for the price of a cup of fancy coffee and a breakfast sandwich.

The first part of this post is to let others know, that yes, you are not the only one who is or has kicked themselves for missing a must buy item. It happens. I wanted to snipe my high bid because I was concerned if I placed a three figure bid, someone with knowledge and a desire to own the item would just top the bid and I would still need to bid and snipe higher.

So, images, back and front:



Why does this nondescript cover have the power to get me so upset that I even scared my dog while cursing myself out about the stupid, infection driven failure to simply place a timely bid. [More editorial comment to self, "dumb, dumb, dumb idiot].

I will give one clue, it IS NOT because Independence, CA is just up US Highway 395 from Manzanar. By the way you can not get there now because the highways to it are closed due to flooding and mudslides as a result of the aforementioned storm. It is not uncommon for storms to affect the area. Independence is the county seat of Inyo County. When the county was considering which town to select as the county seat, it was narrowed down to Independence and Kearsarge (AKA Kearsarge City and not to be confuse with the present Kearsarge located in Inyo County but at a far different location). The matter was quickly decided when an avalanche erased the town of Kerarsarge and a few townspeople from the side of the mountain upon which it formerly stood.

Now as I think John Becker can easily discern the reason this cover is so desirable, I ask that you, John Becker hold off for a while. I will invite your comments prior to the posting of my explanation.

If anyone already knows what this cover is all about and has a similar one, please do us all a favor and post it.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 03/10/2023 4:07 pm

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Posted 03/10/2023   4:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, a very nice piece of postal history. I'm not sure I would value it in the three figures though.
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Posted 03/10/2023   4:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jleb1979 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
At the time it was posted first class surface delivery was 4 cents.

But this is a non-carrier letter dropped at the post office - (ed to add for Mr. Gemmell must've had a box there, right?)
The local non-carrier (non-delivery) rate would have been the 3 cents according to my Wawrukiewicz. (This discounted charge structure for non-carrier first class ended January 7 1968. After that you had to pay full first class postage.)

I would believe that there are not a lot of surviving local non-carrier covers surviving. But with the sender not affixing postage.... a Postage due non-carrier local would become pretty unusual.

That's all I got....

Edited to add - hope you get better soon.
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Edited by jleb1979 - 03/10/2023 4:41 pm
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Posted 03/10/2023   5:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's all well and good, but it bears every sign of being philatelic in nature.
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Posted 03/10/2023   5:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But this is a non-carrier letter dropped at the post office


And we know that how?


Quote:
Mr. Gemmell must've had a box there, right?


"Right" is maybe yes, maybe no. So which is it?
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Posted 03/10/2023   5:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"Right" is maybe yes, maybe no. So which is it?


I think I will take that question.

John Gemmell in 1959 was a junior in Independence, CA's Owens Valley High School. Being under age 18 I do not believe he was allowed to obtain a mail box. So either he was General Delivery or used an adult family member's box.


Quote:
That's all well and good, but it bears every sign of being philatelic in nature.


How or why do you say that revcollector? What are the signs you note?
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Posted 03/10/2023   5:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jleb1979 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The letter is addressed "local" so it is intra-city.
non-carrier because carrier local ended in 1944.

As to Gemmell having a PO box, If the 3 cent rate assessed is correct (which was an unstated assumption I made), then no carrier was involved.
if a carrier had to bring it to a residential address somewhere, it becomes first class surface, and then 4 cents would be due, yes.

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Posted 03/10/2023   5:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's all well and good, but it bears every sign of being philatelic in nature.


It bears every sign of NOT being philatelic.

I feel compelled to ask also ....

Revcollector, please point out exactly what characteristics are "philatelic" about this cover, and exactly how different a non-philatelic cover of this rate/use would look.
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Posted 03/10/2023   5:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How or why do you say that revcollector? What are the signs you note?


The entire makeup of the cover. The address is such that it would have to be picked up. The PO box return is such that it must be the same PO. There is no real reason to not have a stamp, since no carrier was involved. After all, it had to get to the PO somehow; if it was legitimate mail a stamp would have been purchased. A junior in HS would certainly know it was needed.
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Posted 03/10/2023   5:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Revcollector, That is how local mail at a non-delivery office works. It is dropped off by the mailer. It is picked up by the recipient. When you understand that, you will understand this cover.
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Posted 03/10/2023   5:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oldboldandbrash to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok can we stop with the coded language my goodness-- seriously this is a forum for informing the public not playing mind games. Can someone explain for me, the layman, what's so special here?
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Posted 03/10/2023   6:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ok can we stop with the coded language my goodness-- seriously this is a forum for informing the public not playing mind games. Can someone explain for me, the layman, what's so special here?


That will come in due time oldboldandbrash, I promise.

I will take a stance about your "coded language" in as much as the language is no more coded than this list of colors, red, yellow and blue is coded to a blind person. Now I will be able to explain the "code" to you when it is time to do so.

That said, part of the process to understand and thus enjoy postal history is taking the time to decipher it.


Quote:
Revcollector, That is how local mail at a non-delivery office works. It is dropped off by the mailer. It is picked up by the recipient. When you understand that, you will understand this cover.


and will add detail to that statement in the wrap up if not sooner.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 03/10/2023 6:15 pm
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Posted 03/10/2023   7:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Revcollector, That is how local mail at a non-delivery office works. It is dropped off by the mailer. It is picked up by the recipient. When you understand that, you will understand this cover.


That's the whole point. If it was dropped off at the PO, why didn't the sender buy a stamp????? At the very least, there had to be a way to do so. Why was it postage due when it didn't have to be? I understand the way the mail traveled, just not why it is postage due when there was no reason for it. To me it appears contrived.
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Posted 03/10/2023   7:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Also it was opened very neatly for a teenager who is not a collector......
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Posted 03/10/2023   7:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also it was opened very neatly for a teenager who is not a collector......


Rural 1959 in a farming and ranching area, everyone carried a pocket knife even in school. Likely if a kid was lucky enough to have a pickup to drive to school, the rifle rack in the cabin was in use as well.

As to your earlier post the post office counter was not open 24/7/365 while the PO Box lobby was. Also there was an outside the PO collection box.
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 03/10/2023 7:20 pm
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Posted 03/10/2023   7:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add revcollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Likely if a kid was lucky enough to have a pickup to drive to school, the rifle rack in the cabin was in use as well.


In this day and age, this is not something to brag about when school is being discussed.
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