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Canada Unitrade 781B (Bk77)

 
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/12/2024   4:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add lithograving to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was going through my Canadian booklets when I noticed the disfigured 12c Queen
cameo on Unitrade 781b (BK77)
There is nothing in Unitrade but my 1997 Darnell Stamps of Canada catalogue
mentions a "Double cameo"
What would be the philatelic term for this and how would it have occured during the
printing process?


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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/12/2024   4:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For some reason even though I entered 781b in the title it comes up
as a capital B and I cannot change it.

Why is that ?
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United States
12330 Posts
Posted 02/12/2024   4:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The forum code changes it because no matter how hard we tried, people still insisted on using ALL CAPS IN TITLES.
Don
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/12/2024   4:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Don for the explanation.
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Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts
Posted 02/14/2024   1:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Misregistration (Click on the image below to see it better.)

Source: https://re-entries.com/terms.html#misreg
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Edited by jogil - 02/14/2024 2:15 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/14/2024   9:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Jogil

But what caused this misregistration.

The booklets were printed by the British American Bank Note Co on the 7 colour
web fed Goebel press.

Up to 4 photogravure and 3 engraved colours could be printed on one single pass.

Was the misregistration caused by a split second power outage?
Or perhaps the speed of the paper passing through the press was increased
or decreased?
Mechanical failure?
Press stopped completely and when resumed caused
double printing?



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Valued Member
Canada
112 Posts
Posted 03/08/2024   12:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bk80 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe a bit longer explanation could clear this up. This is printed on a continuous roll of paper. As thee paper moves through the press it first encounters the grey cylinder that only prints the grey of the face and the background around the face (that is the photogravure part 1) then as the paper keeps moving through the press it encounters the second cylinder that is supposed to add the red colour and to register it exactly onto the previously printed grey. (that is the photogravure part 2) When you look at that great picture you supplied, it is evident that the registration of colours has gone a bit off. Gray being the first and red being the next colour. Look at the top of the tiara to see. It is under the red. So the red colour is mis-registered until the printers notice and fix it. The offset is so small that it is not worth throwing out a whole run of booklets. Then as the paper still continues it meets the cylinder that will print the engraved portions. (Black lettering and the cutting guides you see on the tab on the left hand side.) This is done from the same cylinder that can handle 3 colours on the same cylendar at the same time.
So here you have three chances of getting some mis-registrations. Some of that can be seen on the post by Jogil. No mis-firing, no power outage, just small incremental movement in the paper and registration tolerances.
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Valued Member
57 Posts
Posted 03/12/2024   09:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Elagabale78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
i have the missing A in CAnada, Unitrade states 1 known and hinged, I have 2 booklets....
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Valued Member
57 Posts
Posted 03/12/2024   09:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Elagabale78 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe the publisher or a friend of him paid $1650 for the one pictured in the book in a BC auction, and he doesn't want to hear that others exist...i sent a picture to Harris but still not in his catalogue...no comments....
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 03/12/2024   6:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your input bk80


Quote:
As thee paper moves through the press it first encounters the grey cylinder that only prints the grey of the face and the background around the face (that is the photogravure part 1) then as the paper keeps moving through the press it encounters the second cylinder that is supposed to add the red colour and to register it exactly onto the previously printed grey. (that is the photogravure part 2) When you look at that great picture you supplied, it is evident that the registration of colours has gone a bit off. Gray being the first and red being the next colour. Look at the top of the tiara to see. It is under the red. So the red colour is mis-registered until the printers notice and fix it. The offset is so small that it is not worth throwing out a whole run of booklets. Then as the paper still continues it meets the cylinder that will print the engraved portions. (Black lettering and the cutting guides you see on the tab on the left hand side.) This is done from the same cylinder that can handle 3 colours on the same cylendar at the same time.
So here you have three chances of getting some mis-registrations.


But a couple of things don't line up.
You mention that a red photogravure colour was printed after the grey and then
black lettering from the engraved cylinder.
I see a light blue background and a grey cameo both photogravure and
a dark maroon engraved portion for the lettering.

For the 1c gentian I see a pinkish background,light blue gentian and green leaves
all printed photogravure.
Also a dark blue engraved colour for the lettering and the outlines of the gentian.
So we have 4 photogravure inks used and 2 engraved inks.
Then you have to add the tagging which was usually printed via photogravure.
All on one pass through the press.

The dark shading surrounding the Queen's head I believe is just the grey
colour printed over the blue which makes it look darker than the grey printed over the white paper.
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Valued Member
Canada
112 Posts
Posted 03/12/2024   10:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bk80 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
OMG!!!
You are so right. I need to re-read what I write. What I was commenting on, was the queen stamp only and I did not even get my colours right. Cockiness or old age or a bit of both on my side.
Thanks for the corrections. You are almost right but the 12c blue queen has black lettering. I didn't make that up, I looked it up in the catalogue.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 03/13/2024   3:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Catalogues aren't always correct.

I zoomed in on the engraved numeral and the colour is not black.


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Valued Member
Canada
112 Posts
Posted 03/13/2024   6:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bk80 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok Thanks
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Valued Member
Canada
112 Posts
Posted 03/21/2024   11:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bk80 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Lithograving,
Is it possible that the picture used above may have been scanned with a scanner as explained in another post. See the link below:

https://goscf.com/t/86487#:~:text=%...ferent%20dpi.

I then re-read all I could find on 781b (which has the very same specs as #713) an even though I fully agree with you that the catalogues don't always get it right. I this particular instance, based on the inserted link's information, I believe that the catalogues have it right.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 03/21/2024   8:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi bk80

I'm sure you must have a booklet of these 12c Queens laying around
Forget about a scanner but just look at it with a magnifying glass
and you will see that the lettering is not black

Below is a pic of the booklet I took with my phone in late afternoon daylight.
I placed a sheet stamp of Scott 713 over the upper right stamp
and noticed that the blue colour is darker than the
booklet 12C stamps.

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Edited by lithograving - 03/21/2024 8:12 pm
Valued Member
Canada
112 Posts
Posted 03/21/2024   10:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bk80 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I had a look with a 10 Peak Loupe, a 60x to 100x illuminated microscope and a digital microscope. Sorry, I don't have a magnifying glass.
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