1851-57 12c Washington

Thank you for the explanation! I do am interested in your hard work for plating.

That must be tempting to sometimes get a real 12c and plate it, am I right? Please keep going with the 12c study, that's an amazing stamp!

Thanks a lot for the link, also. I would like to help with that stamp... how could I? I am a plater, so maybe I could help...

Captain Stamp, If you really want to help, I could use your help. Send me an email through this site and we can connect. What I need is a second set of eyes to confirm my platings and to verify the positions that I consider incorrect. Maybe they are correct and I am looking at it wrong. I need someone to discuss certain stamps and maybe even to help creating ID Images. I have a single stamp that I plated to 53L3 but hesitate to mark it as such without verification. I currently only have one copy to look at. It is one of 10 positions for sure. A second set of eyes would help. What image program do you use?

For instance, here is 53L3 on left and the one I am trying to plate on the right.
Are they a perfect match? Look at the breaks in the frameline, the marks in the "T & W" and the mark in the "S" of "CENTS". Do you see those marks under the red cancel or is it my imagination?


If you want to look at Allen's work, take a look at this site. Plate 3 starts about half way down on frame 7 and all of frame 8.
https://www.uspcs.org/resource-cent...f-1851-1861/

I unfortunately don't use any image program, but I could use one if required to help.

I will with pleasure help you confirm the positions of your stamps, I love doing that. I do see really well the marks you're talking about on both stamps, even under the cancel. But I see that the ''intensity'' of the marks is different on the two stamps for some marks. As if there was two states... I don't really know the plates yet so I don't know, I'm probably wrong.

I will contact you tomorrow through email to discuss more about that subject.

The "intensity" of the marks could be a number of factors. Early state vs late state, of course the image will slowly deteriorate as more stamps are printed. The lines will not be as well defined on later printings. Also the cancel might be causing a halo effect on the marks. Thirdly is scale. I scale every image that I pick up. To compare images, they must be of equal size on my computer. They are scanned in at different dpi. I have determined that I want my images to be approximately 1200 dpi. So I took an image that approximated 1200 dpi and measured the height. I came up with 1180 pixels. I take a new image and measure the height. Divide 1180 by that number and I get the scale needed to match that size. You can check the size three or four times and get a different number each time so I set some standards. The most common size for a single or pair of stamps is a scale of 170, so if the number is close to that, it becomes 170. The other normalized scales are 264, usually for blocks and 340 for larger blocks and for stamps on cover. The scaling will affect the stamps to some degree. A stamp editing program is needed to zoom in on certain areas for comparison. I cannot make a perfect ID Image with just one image because I do not know if a mark is consistent or just on one particular stamp. Plate 3 has never been plated. I am only missing two positions on the right plane for a virtual reconstruction. But to me, that will not make the plate able to be called plated. To me, plated means to have an image that someone else can use to find the plate position, ie the ID images. The key to plating these stamps is the outer frame line. Taking into account, the later state of the plates, the scaling that must be done to get the same size image, and the cancellations, are the breaks in the frameline in the same places? Some leniency must be given but not much. Take another look at those two stamps. Just concentrate on the breaks in the frameline. Does it match? That is the question for most of this plate. Also, placement of the lower right guide dot must match. And you need to be able to zoom in to take a closer look to determine this most of the time. There are two dots in the frameline on the lower right side that all of the stamps have. Those are design, not plate marks. Plate marks must be consistent on two stamps of the same position but not on every stamp. So, to find plate marks you must have two positions to work with. My goal is to get an ID image or two for each position, then I can call the plate "plated". My guide dot charts are a key to finding a match for a position to start the frameline comparison. Also the double lines in columns 3-4 and the single line in columns 7-8 and the center line between the plates.

There is a block of 6 in the middle of the sheet that is known as the largest block found from the left pane. Allen had plated it as 66-68---76-78L3. I was wondering how it was plated as there are no adjoining matches. There is a block of 4 below it 87-88---97-98L3 that is a bottom row piece. Having the single line between rows 7-8, it is a correct plate, but the top two are cut short and it does not tie into the block of 6. I think that I found an unplated block that ties them together. It appears to be 77-78---87-88. That matches the two bottom right stamps of the block of 6 with the top two of the new block and the top two stamps of the bottom block of 4 match the two both stamps of the new block. This is a significant find. Take a look at the layout. The block of 4 to the right overlay the 2 blocks at the left.

Here are the matching pairs. The bottom right two stamps of the block of 6 with the top two stamps of the new block. The second image is the bottom two stamps of the new block and the top two stamps of the bottom row block. If these two sets match, then I found the connecting block for the block of 6. The new block has a lot of surface wear from improper handling and storage that must be overlooked.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write all this! I find that really interesting. I compared the frame lines to the two 53L3, and they seem to really match.

Strong and weak points are both there at the same place, as well as a few other marks. The left stamp is highly hidden by the cancel, unfortunately though.

Do you have any plate proof images? I know someone who plated an entire stamp using a lot of plate proof stamps.

There was supposedly only one half sheet for a proof made. I have a few singles from the left pane. And not just from the top or bottom of that sheet. So by half sheet, they had to have meant from the 200 pane sheet, therefore, the entire left pane.

That sounds really interesting! There seems to have so many undiscovered mysteries about that stamp!

The plate 3 left pane is coming along.
Here is the current virtual reconstruction to show where I am on this plate.

I just found an important piece to the puzzle. I have an image of an unplated block of 4 (image 1). First thing that I noticed was the left margin was large. I copied the spacing between the stamps and moved it to the left border (see image 2 upper left). It appears the border is larger than the space between the stamps and there should be the frameline from the stamp to the left, if there was one. Since there is no lines shown on any of the perforation tips, that makes this a row 1 - 2 and the left pane because the spacing between the center line and the right pane column 1 stamp is shorter than the spacing between stamps. The only images that I have for the first 2 columns is 12, 51, 81-82, 91-92. Stamp 12L3 is not a good image as it came from an envelope and had to be enlarged more (340%) to fit 1200 dpi size. The left frameline on it is not shown and is heavily cancelled. So all I have to work with is the right frameline. I compared both right images of the block to 12L3. Low and behold, I found a match with the right bottom stamp of the block! Take a look at the line comparisons in the second image. The breaks in the right frameline match. That makes this unplated block to be positions 1-2---11-12L3. The top left corner has been found.

@jaxom - nice find & great progress !

I think I made another significant find. I have here an unidentified block of 4 (image 1). What is unique about it is the right frameline in the bottom right corner is missing on all 4 positions. I checked the right pane using my guide dot chart and no block of 4 positions are missing the right frameline at the bottom and the guide dots do not match any block of positions. So that makes it a left pane block. I checked the spacing between the stamps and compared it to my spacing chart (image 2). The spacing only fits column 4-5 and 6-7. In order for it to be columns 4-5 there has to be a double left frameline on the left stamps. There is plenty of border and no second line. That means it must be columns 6-7. None of the stamps match 16 and 17L3, or 66-67---96-97L3. That means the block must fit in 26-27---56-57L3. See the empty block indicated on the guide dot chart (image 3). Even though I cannot plate it further, it must be one of 3 positions, 26-27---36-37L3, 36-37---46-47L3, or 46-47---56-57L3. Hopefully, this block can be tied in exactly later.

I found another nice find. This block of 4 (image 1) is showing part of the center line at the bottom right. I compared it to the straddle margin copy of 91R3 which shows the right frameline of position 100L3. It was a match with the bottom right stamp (image 2). That makes the block 89-90---99-100L3. That covers the bottom right corner of the left pane. I needed all 4 positions.

I found two singles on cover where one had an extra line at right (column 3) and one had an extra line on the left (column 4). So I took them apart and put them together as an adjoining pair (Image 1). The perforations match perfect. Then I started plating with the column 3 and 4 left pane images. The cancel and perforation holes made plating difficult. After some time, I found a definitive match with 83-84L3. Image 2 shows what they looked like on cover. If you look at image 2 right images, you will see a dot in the framelines that is visible on all copies of position 83L3. The framelines on both positions seem to match as well.

I plated a block only to find that I had previously plated. So, I decided to make a spread sheet for all of the plate 3 images. I can sort by auction number so I do not end up replating another block and so I can tell if I have a block that I am looking at. I also indicated which positions that I plated and I can sort by left or right pane. I will also add unplated items.