Scott 641 Precancel Chicago, Illinois

I am a bit confused on local precancels. This one doesn't match any of the ones in the catalog that say MW


based on the date it should be LT-35 but the distance between the bars is greater than 9.5mm

MW = Montgomery Ward

This is a bureau precancel PSS-61 (applied while the stamp was printed in DC).
Then in Chicago MW applied the requisite dating.

What then makes a local precancel different than a bureau precancel?

Austin874, I just want to make sure that you understand that the additional "MW - DEC 38" is NOT a postally applied precancel, local or otherwise. It is a marking which the using company was required to add when using postally precanceled stamps.




A local precancel would be any post office (postally) applied printed cancellation to a stamp or stamps prior to being affixed to a piece of mail matter. This also applies to cancellation by a postal hand-cancelling device but as each of such impressions are unique they tend not to be cataloged. The hand stamp precancel are quite common on postage due stamps.

Why is it different than these?

I do not see the exact copy of your precancel on the above sheet. Chasa gave you the correct info as found on www.precancels.org


Peter

After reading this post, and to be clear... all of the examples in the PSS catalog shown above are the precancels - including the companies marking - that were all applied together in DC at the post office? The one shown in the OP/s post is a private hand stamp used afterwards by the company at their offices whereby most are not cataloged....am I correct?

The local and dated ones can be a challenge at first.

MW used all sorts of precancels.
Bureau precancels with a locally applied date like the OP
The ones shown on the page, where the "ihs" is the key. It stands for -if I recall it right- integral handstamp. A handstamp that applied both the precancel and the required date all at once.
And probably locally applied precancels that had the date added after.

The IHS ones are interesting pieces of history. Customers could pay for the shipping, and maybe their entire order with stamps. Those stamps weren't necessarily applied to their package, but would get processed by adding the IHS precancel. So those could turn up on almost any available stamp, even ones years out of date.

Ok thanks very much 'plate40' for your explanation and response to my question. I think it makes sense to me now. Regards

The stamp you are showing has a "Bureau" precancel - applied at and by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing as part of the stamp's production. The "MW" and date were (pretty much mostly) applied by the mailer (Montgomery Ward) as they were being used. The page of "types" that you show are of SOME of the "Town and Type" precancels that were applied at the "local" post office that the mail piece was posted at. One can find different "types" from different post offices on any stamp. I believe there could be millions of different combinations of the "Town and Type" precancels, as each post office could have had several different "precanceling devices". I believe there are - in total - less than 10,000 different "Bureau" precancels. The Precancel Stamp Society has both a "Bureau Precancel" catalog and a "Town and Type" catalog - along with a lot of other publications - some of it is "free". Check them out. They have a good, free, primer.
I'm still learning too, so it's best to have someone else check out all that I've said here . . .

Nice discussion, and excellent example of how a few "highlight" words would help at the start. (Can we redouble our clarity efforts, responders? Especially seasoned experienced folks?)

"In contrast..."

"As opposed to..."

Oh for a nice Venn diagram on this matter, too: Bureau vs. local precancels; "dated" versions of each.

Did you know? It is said the metered postage meter machine makers lobbied the USPO to add cumbersome "Dates & Initials" printing requirement to use precancels (starting at some face value or "all" stamps if total value over "x"). The meter makers raised specter of much "fraud" possible if the USPO didn't. All to get customers like Montgomery Ward frustrated enough to drop precancels and buy meter machines. (USPO set rules about 1938.)
Before computers and telephone lines became inexpensive enough, some firms like MW and Sears found precancels OK (and sufficiently efficient) thank you very much for their vast catalog order fulfillment centers into the 1970s, as opposed to (then) trying to purchase all the meter machines it would have taken and tracking their continuous operating, maintenance and "postage loading" needs.