3c Small Help Queens - Which Printing?

I've been classifying my Small Queens according to information I've found on a few sites regarding the First Ottawa, Montreal and Second Ottawa printings. I'm stuck on these two, especially since the cancels don't provide any clues.



Both are perf 12 x 12.
The left stamp is on a beige-ish paper. The paper on the right is more ivory.
I also don't know how to classify the shades. The left looks more orange to me, the right more brownish-orange. But are they actually "rose", "copper", "orange red" or what? I don't really know how to distinguish colours very well yet. Plus, how do I know if they've faded or changed with age?
I don't think there are position dots on either.

Can anyone help me determine the printing, and the actual colours?

Are the perforations exactly 12 x 12 or 11.93 x 11.93?

Assessing based on scans can be inaccurate, but if you feel you've captured the colour well I'll offer a guess. To my eye your left stamp is a #41 orange vermilion (printed anywhere from the mid 1880s to mid 90s) and your right is a #37 orange red from the mid 1870s. A good reference is the Hillson / Nixon book on Small Queens, if you're interested in taking a deep dive into the subject.

The right copy appears to have more "shadow" and dimension in the printing than the one on the left, which is a bit "flatter". I'm thinking the one on the left is a later Ottawa printing, based on the paper, but is the lack of shadow another feature of the later printings?

If you check my posting from February 2016 you will find a chart that shows the production periods for 14 different perforations of the 3 cent Small Queen.

If that can't be found, contact me directly (via the Forum) and I will provide the charts directly to you.

GJP

gportch, I found your post and saved it for future reference. Thank you. Both stamps measured exactly 12 x 12.

Based on info I've found elsewhere, I've settled on the left being a #41 and the right being a #37 first Ottawa. I mainly want to make sure they're in the right place in the album, heh.

Perforations that measure around exactly 12 on the gauge abundantly exist and they are not accounted for by the Kiusalas perforation gauge. Usually, these belong to the Montreal and Second Ottawa printings. Those from the First Ottawa printings tend to gauge around 11.93 perforations per 2 cm (Kiusalas 66).

I keep seeing references to the Kiusalas perforation gauge, but I can't find much information about them or how to obtain one. I've just been using a regular gauge like this, as I've just been using it for basic measurements and it looks like more precision is needed to classify the Small Queens.

Maresch and Son still has the Kiusalas Canada gauge available.