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Corrientes 1856 Sc#7

 
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Pillar Of The Community
543 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   04:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Murasama to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have found this copy that I would like to show you because I think it is a beautiful stamp with a curious background. When I was looking in the box of "everything for 10 cents", this stamp caught my attention. At first I thought it was French. I added it to my lot without stopping to examine it too much because its appearance already indicated to me that it was a classic stamp. When I got home and looked at it carefully, I thought it could be fake because next to the French designs, this Ceres seems to have been drawn by a child. Furthermore, it did not appear in the French catalogue either… Thanks to Google, I was able to locate it as a stamp issued in Corrientes (Argentina) in 1856. It turns out that it is one of the first Argentine stamps, issued in the province of Corrientes on the initiative of its governor, Juan Pujol, with the idea of ;covering the costs of the postal horses that were free until then. The design, inspired by the French Ceres models, was commissioned to the French immigrant Matías Pipet, and 17 different types were made with different varieties of colour on the paper used. In order not to change the original plate, in the later issues the value "Un Real" was removed from the bottom of the first model. The implementation of the stamp in the province was a challenge for the postal service that did not have a postmark, so the cancellation was implemented officially, done by hand with 3 lines of pen.
My copy, which in principle corresponds to the SC#7, despite the fact that it lost the upper margin and has a small lower margin, looks really nice and at my level as a collector it is fine. I am really happy with the peculiar design of this little stamp. Now that... it could also be that it is false, although in principle all the comparisons I have made with other models on the web indicate that it is original, in this sense I would appreciate your help.


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Edited by Murasama - 09/29/2024 04:56 am

Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3744 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   05:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The stamp is a forgery. pearls are to big.Stamp is not conform to one of the 8 types.
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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   05:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Volume 6, Issue 8 (August 2024) of the "Stamp Collector" magazine carries an article on collecting Argentina (pp. 36-39). There is a paragraph on the corrientes stamps with an image of one printed on bluish paper. It concludes 'Forgeries are plentiful.'
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Pillar Of The Community
543 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   06:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Murasama to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think that the pearls fit perfectly, as well as other details, it is most likely a reprint but not a fake...I put three photos:

1-Reprint. The detail of the hair is very revealing, the first two strands attached to the neck crossed by other diagonal ones.
2. Original. the same two strands attached to the neck crossed by other diagonal ones
3- Fake...small pearls...



Pictures from : https://stampforgeries.com/forged-s...-corrientes/
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Edited by Murasama - 09/29/2024 06:17 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
6526 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   06:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As for the remark perf12 made on the pearls, the article I referred to also shows a genuine stamp (on another paper) with much smaller pearls than the one you posted. Most images you find on the web are likely to be reprints or forgeries.



Caveat: you need to compare the same types and papers to be certain.
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Edited by NSK - 09/29/2024 06:30 am
Pillar Of The Community
543 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   06:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Murasama to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is the image of an original, taken from the Forgery page... I have pointed out some shadows and details that can be found on my stamp and that it is impossible, I think, to replicate them with such exactness...

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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3744 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   07:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Reprints were made from the original plates.. Your stamp is a forgery.
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Pillar Of The Community
543 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   07:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Murasama to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think quite the opposite...After studying it very carefully I think I am in a position to assure that not only is it not a reprint, but that it is original. Specifically type 2, thick white line and break in the oval. I show some images, where I have pointed out some details such as the diagonal lock of hair, which seems fundamental to me for this type, and which can be seen both in the photographs of the original model, reprint and in my copy. You can compare each pearl of the original with my stamp and you will observe that its position and shape coincide in both. I put the comparison of the base of the neck of the original and my stamp further, I believe that such precise details are not Forgery.




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Edited by Murasama - 09/29/2024 08:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1017 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   6:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are mine:



And a closeup of the stamp in question:



I believe all of mine are known good from a reputable dealer...
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Pillar Of The Community
543 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   7:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Murasama to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your stamp, and the other one shown by NSK from Stamp Collector magazine, are type 6 (outer circle penetrating in Corrientes panel), I believe, but in no case type 2 like mine.

the 8 types extracted from the "Illustrated Stamp Album" by Placido Ramon de Torres.



Sheet with the 8 types (I think reprint)
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Edited by Murasama - 09/29/2024 7:36 pm
Pillar Of The Community
1918 Posts
Posted 09/29/2024   11:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jorgesurcl to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
(the 8 types extracted from the "Illustrated Stamp Album" by Placido Ramon de Torres.)

Ramón Antonio Plácido de Torres (c.#8201;1847 – c.#8201;1910s), known as Plácido Ramón de Torres, was a Spanish stamp illustrator, dealer, and forger...
It has been estimated by his biographer Gerhard Lang-Valchs that 10% of the forgeries on the philatelic market are the work of Torres
(from Wikipedia)
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
915 Posts
Posted 09/30/2024   07:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pshann to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi
This is what I found in my Argentina collection.
Hope it is helpful.
Regards


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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
915 Posts
Posted 09/30/2024   07:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pshann to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hopefully better pictures

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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3744 Posts
Posted 09/30/2024   08:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Murasama
your stamp is effectively a type 2.
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Pillar Of The Community
543 Posts
Posted 09/30/2024   3:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Murasama to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perf12, thanks to the controversy you sowed, I now know my stamp and the Corrientes issue better and more intimately!!! Very grateful for it!!! It's also great to be able to see other colleagues' copies!!
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