Early Tobacco Cover - 1869 3-Cent Locomotive With Top Margin Markings

First post, new to forum.

I'm a collector of 19th century cigarette packs and related pieces such as early tobacco covers. I took great interest in the following cover due to being an early piece for Bagley & Co, pleasing artwork, and being addressed to another tobacco industry giant. The aspect I know least about is the postal stamp itself.

A quick search brought me up to speed on some details such as the 3-cent locomotive being the most common of the 1869 stamps, released on March 19th & 20th, 1869 and would be replaced in April 1870. The stamp features a top margin marking that appears to read "NEW YORK". This confuses me as I believe the 1869 stamps were all printed by the National Bank Note Co. based out of Philadelphia?

Looking here to see if the top margin markings are what I think they are and whether this adds any value to the stamp.

Editting in order to get image to post but no luck. Its .jpeg, its under 300kb, less than 800 pixels in longest direction . . . not sure why it won't post.

Thanks In Advance,
Joe G.

Here is a link to a top margin block showing the full imprint "National Bank Note Co New York"
https://repo.siegelauctions.com/2020/1227/3011.jpg

"whether this adds any value to the stamp."
yes, but not a ton

Thank you much for the responses, this clears up a lot for me. I'll also give a 2nd try at posting the cover.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictu...tureid=37945



Is there any way to tell if the March 21st cancel is 1869 or 1870?

Still no image - what city is the letter from? The earliest recorded use currently March 27, 1869. As you noted, it is believed that the stamps were put on sale in New York on March 19 or 20. If your cover is from NYC it could possibly be from 1869 (and would be a valuable cover), but again we need front and back images to offer any sort of guess. Without seeing the cover, it certainly much more likely to be 1870.

I've tried several ways to post an image with no success, I'm usually technically savvy enough to figure such things out but I'm missing something, perhaps I'm blocked from posting images as a new member.

The cover is from Detroit with a March 21st Detroit cancel so I suspect this is an 1870 cover. If anyone who is able to post images reaches out to me *** email deleted by moderator *** I'd be glad to share some images.

*** Please do not post personal information per the rules of this forum ***

Are you using the below "upload Image" button to upload your image?
Are you uploading one image at the time?



It should show a warning if anything goes wrong. Otherwise, 300KB and JPG should not pose a problem.

What browser do you use?

NSK, thanks for trying to help out. I use Microsoft Edge on an old laptop. I've been able to upload images but they only show up in name only, when I try and view them I get a "Whooops! that's a 404" error message. Hard to communicate here when I can't show images or directly connect with anyone for help.

At the top of the page, there is a "FAQ" button. If you click on it, you are directed to a page with FAQs. At the top, there is an index. The last line is "Can't find your answer here? Send us an e-mail."

Click on it and ask for assistance to solve your problem posting images. Maybe, it allows you to attach the file, so a moderator can post it for you.

To cut to the chase, I believe the cover in question is found in this ebay lot:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3262820131...bacco+bagley

Crudely capturing the images:



The base Scott value for a 114 on cover is 24.00
It is impossible from the ebay image to determine if the stamp is sound.
It had a start-price of 62.99 and got 2 bids, selling for 66.00 + 3.86 + tax, which would come to about $75 delivered. Thus the seller and another bidder also thought this was about the right retail range.

Short answer, I sense it went for a reasonable price, given what can be determined from the listing..

The long answer is that valuing postal history is an art taking multiple facets into account.
The ad is the major driving factor in the retail price here.
The town mark is not particularly strong.
A stamp applied sideways is a slight negative to some.
The (apparent) printer's imprint on the partial piece of selvage remnant may be a small positive to some.
The apparent lack of the back flap is a very strong negative to some collectors, and a moderate negative to many of them..

If this were a plain cover, then a marginal marking adds some to the value, but in this case, the ad drives the value/price with the absent flap being the major adjustment factor.

Many thanks again to NSK and award goes to John Becker for finding the cover in question. That is the cover I was seeking more information on. My main interest wasn't in the value but instead looking to understand more about it for which the responses have been very helpful. I'm confident it is a March 21st, 1870 cancel from Detroit and I now understand the "NEW YORK" marking in the margin. Mission accomplished.

That stated, I would very much like to provide high resolution images for those who read this thread and perhaps post other items. I have a pretty deep collection of 19th century cigarette packs, most with revenue stamps, lots of tobacco covers and letters/invoices etc. but it isn't worth sharing without the ability to post pictures.

I used the FAQ several days ago, I've sent emails as root cause and corrective actions to my picture posting issue couldn't be found.

I saw the quote in the original post:


and slanted my response in terms of value, also not knowing the depth of your collecting experience, etc. Value is often the easiest way to get a handle on the many facets which go tinto an item. What factors add or subtract value (or overall interest), like the sender, recipient, the rate, the stamp, the postmark and any auxiliary markings/services, ads, contents, overall condition, etc. Or to take a different approach, which factors add or detract from the exhibitability.

There is also a difference in how one approaches an item. Consider the contrast:
"I collect #114 and want ad covers from various industries...." vs
"I collect tobacco postal/fiscal history, and want ad covers...."

I agree, it would be very useful to have better images. As others have stated it takes a jpg less than 300k and to use the image uploader.

Also, you may find this thread interesting, and can search for others:
https://goscf.com/t/86703&whichpage=1